To describe the experience is like to remembering a dream. I cannot quite recall the entire event, or know what happened in which order. Nor am I able to describe in mere words the feelings I...I felt. But try I will, for you need to know.
At the beginning of the procedure everything seems a little...distant. A bit non-happening. Then suddenly, the sensation of intense begins to crawl all over the body and soul, surrounding the entire being, like being overwhelmed by fear and cold at the exact same instant. The hands still have feeling, albeit concentrated in tingly cold sweaty fingertips...an ugly self. The rest of my body is shaking furiously, out of control. Aye...an ugly self.
An unknown sense of my mind warns of something about to happen. I never knew I could think like that, it was very strange. The attention drifted from my faltering body to the growing unease of my brain. And that is when the dismemberment happened.
...yes...that being the separation of mind and body. My mind, as well as I know it (or knew it), is not accustomed to this. Now I am surreal, for all I feel is a quiet disquiet...a still unease which is almost comfortable. What I was experiencing is perhaps best described as when the mind is soaring with absolute terror, but the body is supressing this, numbing it...so the terror absolute does not surface.
Paradox, you say? Where be my body when I am separated for it to help? My mind adapts...makes me a new body, a virtual one, one to act as a shield to my untrained mental terror...like the post-amputee and his phantom limb. I created a numbing device in place of a real physical sense. Reducing the emotion of horror to stable, tho' unbeaten it remains and thus becomes a quiet disquiet. My amazing mind understood that all feeling is one.
Understanding is not the same as readiness, however. The dismemberment I can handle, sinking into the green lake I cannot. My mind was not so amazing anymore. The fear returned: the full-blown ready to explode kind. And explode it did, creating a new breed of emotion I have no name for. Something was coming.
Something as in some ones...I deduced these were intruderous betraying ego-maniacs of the worst kind (in my normal waking life, a hated known person of mine). They were minds, like mine, floating in the lake, and they were coming at me to meld. I was fresh, and wanted, and they were rushing towards me...to meld their stronger and more horrible emotions with mine...I was helpless. I couldn't conjure any mind tricks, for I was in the lake now...in the lake you had to surrender to the meld. I knew this, but now I didn't want to anymore.
And...boom.
Boom...we melded. The most powerful adrenaline rush no mortal has ever imagined. Knowledge, understanding of the beyond, or the reality, or whatever earthly term we use...whatever it is...it is absolute meaning. I wasn't I...they weren't they...we were one. It was...it was...indescribeable.
Feeling is inconsequential, sense is all. There is no time, no matter...only awareness.
Then it began to fall apart, we, still as one, began to sense confusion...uncertainty. Who planted those intrusive treacherous ego vibes? Unease has no place with us, but why do we feel it? What is fear doing here when it should have been banished?
The meld becomes chaos, blame starts to occur, individual awareness returns...I am I again..and I am the primitive one, bringing primitive negative unwanted emotions to the lake. Get out, get off, go away!
Babblings, screamings, feelings like a swarm of hands all over me, trying to push me away...but I am stronger than we think...and I inadvertantly keep forcing my way back into the meld...thirsty for its power.
This is not good for the lake. Something happens. A fantastic, an ernormous, an unfeasibly powerful presence...a single presence, a one of many, a meld of giants...something is coming.
I whimper, or rather I feel the sensation of submissive whimpering, as do the other presences about with whom I melded...chaos is immediately silenced. An installation of a formidable quiet disquiet is erected, a wall of protection, but also of admonission. Then I sense I am being targeted...I am about to receive something...
My head explodes.
..."...too much...not enough...too much...not enough..." is all I keep from the explosion my mind was subjected to. An acid blast saving me from the lake, protecting the lake's harmony...and returning my scattered mind back to my body. I awoke by the lake, awoke as a newborn awakes for the very first time. Physical did not abandon me after all, but it took weeks before I could co-ordinate my movements, walk and talk normally, before I could think properly again.
I resolved to allow myself the luxury to sleep and dream...but no more. No going back. I dream with gratitude...and with longing, yes.
Monday, 27 October 2008
TGL: Zad's first encounter with Hyacinth
She felt the weight again, coarsely pressing against herself. The weight came at least once every cycle of light and dark. This one was warm and came in three - Plonk! Plonk! Two twin weights balanced on each side of her, and then...Plonk! The master weight placed on her middle. And now further, lighter weights are placed around her edges. She feels the strain being placed on her unfortunate structure, feels the energy her long strong legs are using to support this strange happening.
Woooaaahhh!!!
That happened sometimes too, although there was no pattern to it. She likened it to the rain she once used to experience. Only this rain was sticky and certainly not refreshing......yes, like the rain......when I used to be whole......
She was no longer aware; she was searching for her other selves. Perhaps existence was more pleasureable with the rest of her - aah......now I am like I just was, only smaller, still with four legs, but these are weak, yet it is me. She does not notice the large walking animal about to dethrone her. Ouch! It's bloody sitting right on top of me and I creak! She leaves this self only to find she is in the grip of another such creature and is indeed a tool of aggression towards another, smaller, walker. SSSMACK! SSSMACK! Right on its behind! She is small and thin, with a round head which is still forcefully connecting against her will. THIS IS NO FUN AT ALL!......I remember when I was whole......
She is now one and all her selves. As she used to be. She feels the real rain, my sweet, my beautiful rain. And the wind - your breath gives me my very essence, you provide my energy. She is with all her family - huge, unchanging, purposeful. A swinging animal uses her arms to play, travel and make home. This is why I exist! Tiny dot animals feast on her growth......my growth......
YEEEAAAWWWOOOHHH!!!!!!
With a jolt she comes out of her reminiscing as she is whacked full on her midriff. She screams a cry of pain, frustration, self-pity, of longing......of retribution.
......
Zad violently stubbed his toe against the wall (as only he is prone) and heavily punched the table with the bottom of his fist in retaliation. For one crazy moment he was sure the table reacted, a fearsome reaction. But no, it was plainly the momentum of his momentary anger, causing the table to jump up towards him.
Feeling satisfied, Zad went on with his day.
Woooaaahhh!!!
That happened sometimes too, although there was no pattern to it. She likened it to the rain she once used to experience. Only this rain was sticky and certainly not refreshing......yes, like the rain......when I used to be whole......
She was no longer aware; she was searching for her other selves. Perhaps existence was more pleasureable with the rest of her - aah......now I am like I just was, only smaller, still with four legs, but these are weak, yet it is me. She does not notice the large walking animal about to dethrone her. Ouch! It's bloody sitting right on top of me and I creak! She leaves this self only to find she is in the grip of another such creature and is indeed a tool of aggression towards another, smaller, walker. SSSMACK! SSSMACK! Right on its behind! She is small and thin, with a round head which is still forcefully connecting against her will. THIS IS NO FUN AT ALL!......I remember when I was whole......
She is now one and all her selves. As she used to be. She feels the real rain, my sweet, my beautiful rain. And the wind - your breath gives me my very essence, you provide my energy. She is with all her family - huge, unchanging, purposeful. A swinging animal uses her arms to play, travel and make home. This is why I exist! Tiny dot animals feast on her growth......my growth......
YEEEAAAWWWOOOHHH!!!!!!
With a jolt she comes out of her reminiscing as she is whacked full on her midriff. She screams a cry of pain, frustration, self-pity, of longing......of retribution.
......
Zad violently stubbed his toe against the wall (as only he is prone) and heavily punched the table with the bottom of his fist in retaliation. For one crazy moment he was sure the table reacted, a fearsome reaction. But no, it was plainly the momentum of his momentary anger, causing the table to jump up towards him.
Feeling satisfied, Zad went on with his day.
TGL: Clue dialogue between Oz and a failed mimic
How do you feel?
Hmm...? Oh! I feel fine...yeah.
And how else do you feel?
Alright...I feel dull. I feel as if someone has switched off the light inside me...the light in me. And numb, yes...like my brain would not register pain...or any other feeling. Spaced-out you might say.
You might. More, please.
More...? Um...I feel...indecisive. Should I write this with your blue biro? Or should I fish mine out of my...wait, where's my bag?
Forget your bag.
...I...I think I'm incapable, or I feel incapable...or is that the same...(sigh).
Good, but I need more.
You will drain me! But I will give you more if that's what you want. I am tired, yes...and sleepy. See my thoughts wander...lost in their own confusion...
You are confused?
Huh...? No, not really. I'm just raving. Just raving to please you it seems.
Aah...tell me more about the raving.
Oh...y-e-s...I was raving...and now I...now I am coming down. YES! THAT'S IT! That's it...comedown. That is what I am suffering from, that is my disease! But it will pass...
I don't understand.
Of course you don't. You're not the one coming down, you have never been high enough to warrant a comedown! I have...I have...when the beats get to my brain the rhythms meld with my mind...it is a part of me now.
Yes...that's it.
It jumps my heart, makes me feel...my dreams keep it real. The fire, it burns...my lover, she yearns.
I am sorry for you.
Yes, yes...that is why...but it will pass. I am resting now. I need to rest if I want to go up again. I need to go higher...I know when I get over the top...she'll stop yearning...she'll stop...maybe the light will come back.
I hope for you it does.
Now leave me be, you have what you desired and now I will have mine!
So be it.
Hmm...? Oh! I feel fine...yeah.
And how else do you feel?
Alright...I feel dull. I feel as if someone has switched off the light inside me...the light in me. And numb, yes...like my brain would not register pain...or any other feeling. Spaced-out you might say.
You might. More, please.
More...? Um...I feel...indecisive. Should I write this with your blue biro? Or should I fish mine out of my...wait, where's my bag?
Forget your bag.
...I...I think I'm incapable, or I feel incapable...or is that the same...(sigh).
Good, but I need more.
You will drain me! But I will give you more if that's what you want. I am tired, yes...and sleepy. See my thoughts wander...lost in their own confusion...
You are confused?
Huh...? No, not really. I'm just raving. Just raving to please you it seems.
Aah...tell me more about the raving.
Oh...y-e-s...I was raving...and now I...now I am coming down. YES! THAT'S IT! That's it...comedown. That is what I am suffering from, that is my disease! But it will pass...
I don't understand.
Of course you don't. You're not the one coming down, you have never been high enough to warrant a comedown! I have...I have...when the beats get to my brain the rhythms meld with my mind...it is a part of me now.
Yes...that's it.
It jumps my heart, makes me feel...my dreams keep it real. The fire, it burns...my lover, she yearns.
I am sorry for you.
Yes, yes...that is why...but it will pass. I am resting now. I need to rest if I want to go up again. I need to go higher...I know when I get over the top...she'll stop yearning...she'll stop...maybe the light will come back.
I hope for you it does.
Now leave me be, you have what you desired and now I will have mine!
So be it.
Saturday, 25 October 2008
God must be turning in his grave
This wonderful sentence only has 6 Google hits. I found it alluded to in a comment on a Guardian CiF piece (user: Selavy) about Sarah Palin.
Now it should have 7 hits...may it become the title for any number of rants, blogs, commentaries, articles, shout-outs, fist-fucks (what?), statement of intents, disclaimer reviews and editorial opinion write-downs.
Here's one use: God must be turning in his grave...at the sight of the London Atheist Bus:
http://arianesherine.blogspot.com/2008/10/weve-started-revolution.html
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Another one is "God would turn in his grave" ... this now has 4 hits.
God would turn in his grave if only he could hear Sarah Palin praying for the "perfect will of God" winning the election for the Republicans.
Now it should have 7 hits...may it become the title for any number of rants, blogs, commentaries, articles, shout-outs, fist-fucks (what?), statement of intents, disclaimer reviews and editorial opinion write-downs.
Here's one use: God must be turning in his grave...at the sight of the London Atheist Bus:
http://arianesherine.blogspot.com/2008/10/weve-started-revolution.html
--------
Another one is "God would turn in his grave" ... this now has 4 hits.
God would turn in his grave if only he could hear Sarah Palin praying for the "perfect will of God" winning the election for the Republicans.
Friday, 24 October 2008
Game Review: KOTOR
!!!
MAJOR SPOILERS A'COMING!
!!!
KOTOR is Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic (PC version). Akin to the Lost episode effect from my last blog entry...playing this game through left me with a really elated geeky feeling that I needed to satiate. I registered with the most mature dedicated forum I could find (www.lucasforums.com) and let rip, receiving an equally thoughtful reply too.
Also akin to the Lost blog, is that I rarely play computer games anymore (used to play a lot when younger) but once a year or so I like to try a few out until I find one epic enough for my tastes. In the last few years I can only count the new Tomb Raiders and X2/X3 (Egosoft) as my being almost as obsessed with. Kotor wins out as the greatest game I've played post-adulthood. For a similarly powerful gaming experience, I have to look back 10 years ago to Final Fantasy VII (goosepimps!!).
Recommending Kotor in short form: being an old Star Wars head and enjoyer of deep gaming helps.
I'll just paste the first 3 posts here:
-------------------------------------
MAJOR SPOILERS A'COMING!
!!!
KOTOR is Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic (PC version). Akin to the Lost episode effect from my last blog entry...playing this game through left me with a really elated geeky feeling that I needed to satiate. I registered with the most mature dedicated forum I could find (www.lucasforums.com) and let rip, receiving an equally thoughtful reply too.
Also akin to the Lost blog, is that I rarely play computer games anymore (used to play a lot when younger) but once a year or so I like to try a few out until I find one epic enough for my tastes. In the last few years I can only count the new Tomb Raiders and X2/X3 (Egosoft) as my being almost as obsessed with. Kotor wins out as the greatest game I've played post-adulthood. For a similarly powerful gaming experience, I have to look back 10 years ago to Final Fantasy VII (goosepimps!!).
Recommending Kotor in short form: being an old Star Wars head and enjoyer of deep gaming helps.
I'll just paste the first 3 posts here:
-------------------------------------
Listing my impressions (spoilers & long post)
Hi all.
I finished this masterpiece the other day after 2 weeks & almost 70 hours of gaming - I enjoyed it so much that I've been reading this forum and Wookiepedia ever since. I thought as an act of post-game therapy I'd record my impressions of it here...some of you might want to read it or comment and note your own impressions too.
Just a note on how I played: PC version as Level 1 male Scout and later Consular - Normal difficulty, with all pauses turned off (by the time I got to fighting the Raghouls anyway) and music & subtitles also off. This created an intense and real atmosphere, especially for the battles. I generally had exclusively Jedi in my party.
Order of planets: Kashyyyk - Manaan - Tatooine - Korriban (no reason for this order, had no clue what to expect).
In all roleplaying games I like to act as I would in real-life, so pretty much followed the light-to-grey tho' took liberties in the bounty hunting and the odd unimportant moment, then after finishing the game reloaded my Temple savepoint to join Bastila to finish it darkside.
I cheated twice...ouch! When I couldn't find the Changeling in the Shadowlands and when I couldn't work out how to clear the runed-up pillar blocking the bridge in one of the Korriban temples I relented and looked the solutions up in a walkthrough...it took some skilful skimmed reading to make sure I didn't read any spoilers inadvertantly!
How I killed Malak: Thermal Detonators!
Main impression:
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- Knights Of The Old Republic made me love the Star Wars universe again...not since I stopped playing with my toys back in the late 1980's have I been so interested in Star Wars. Not even the prequel films managed it (their poor dialogue, contrived plotting and over-reliance on CGI caused much disinterest).
Story bits I liked (in order of when they happened):
----------------------------------------------------
- The Promised Land: such a small side quest yet has so much depth you could write a book about it...I hope they made it.
- The Kashyyyk computer: this was the moment when I realised I am so into this game, the fascinating Q&A with the computer, realising that I had to answer darkside to get it to open...brilliantly written and presented, and perfectly matched to the eerie Shadowlands environment.
- Hearing of how the Selgath went crazy and were ripping the scientists to shreds...horror imagery at its most suggestive.
- The Sandpeople story, expertly relayed by HK-47.
- What? I am Revan? Wow! I was expecting Revan to make an appearance but more as a temporary addition to your party at some point later in the game. I really grew into the role and preferred to be Revan so never chose the "I'm not Revan anymore, I'm blah"...yet still remain on the grey or light side. I had some delusions of wanting to unite the Sith and Republic but it never panned out like that!
- Valley Of The Dark Lords was a great addition...dark and mysterious and interesting.
- The Unknown planet had a well-balanced sense of mystery which was cleared up well by the game's dialogue and story arc.
- Zaalbar slaying Mission...man, that was so dark. Ol' Madclaw always did carry an air of tragedy about him anyway.
Other bits I liked:
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- "1...2...smart"
- The Duel Announcer on Taris...he was great!
- Bastila trips up Mission using the force, hehe.
- The funniest line not to come from HK-47? When Bastila for the umpteenth time goes on about "Beware of the dark side, for temptation is bad blah blah blah" and I answer "Ok, you better warn me. How about, blink once for Light and twice for Dark?" Hahahaha!
- One of my favourite battles was with Seffron (Soffru?) and his Mandalorian gang on Dantooine...it got really messy and chaotic, then it was just me and him left...I lured him behind a speedster where I had previously set mines...he still survived but was weakened, as was I...I risked a frag grenade at close range...BOOM! I survive with like 1% health and he dead! Phew!
- A clever touch after Dantooine was Garth complaining (for a change) that he's been feeling left out because I'd been using Canderous a lot while Garth didn't take part in Dantooine at all and likely felt miffed that the Mandalorian was personally present as the Jedi Council discussed the top-secret Star Forge plans where as he, the Republic war hero, was on kitchen duty!
- "You can't get me, fishy fishy...oh no you can't...because I'm quite safe, yes...safe from you fishy wishy." Proper crazy!
- The Leviathan: which party member should attempt our rescue? That's easy...T3 was so perfect for the job I was actually convinced he would have been the only choice anyway...only later I found out in these forums you could use the others as well. T3 was already a bit of a legend as he was my bounty hunter for the Glenoradran while I solo'd off talking to the merchant or hiding behind hillls...thus rendering me innocent should I get caught! Suspending disbelief they call that.
- So I'm at the Sith Academy and these Sith apprentices are challlenging me to say something interesting to save some sad hopefuls..."Let me tell you the one about the Mandalorian..." Haha! I bet Canderous would have found it funny too but I don't think he was in my party at that point.
- "I choose...me." After the final temple on Korriban: ripping the hell out of the Sith master, his double-crossing apprentice, and the entire academy. I was so strong at this point that battles were easy...and it felt so right, me rediscovering my Revan-ness and all. I dispatched those two in quick time, then went to the academy and took care of all of them like the anteater hoovers up his prey. The Dark Lord reborn! Yet still I was lightside. I enjoyed that.
- The mysterious box: what an interesting concept. Would have been good to have tied this in with the Unknown World story a bit.
The best characters:
--------------------
- Canderous & Jolee...Canderous is definitely morally bankrupt ("I killed women and children") and Jolee tries to pass himself off as a typical old coot...but both are very deep, funny, true characters who would have enriched the prequel films.
- HK-47...I got him quite late on as I did Tatooine second-to-last. I was so entertained talking to him, what a star!
General things I liked:
-----------------------
- The Force Powers were a joy to use.
- All the voice acting was absolute top, from the alien voices the male Twi'lik's were particularly good.
- The Czerka Corporation was well realised as a believable entity.
- Julhani might have been a bit boring, but she was hot and a great fighter. Only now thanks to reading these forums do I hear she has lesbianic tendencies...which makes her even hotter.
- The Star Forge is a worthy chase. More interesting than even the Death Star.
Observations, suggestions and things that might have been better:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
- The repeated faces and alien speech got wearing.
- Between scenes of movie all audio would cut out and my screen would for a split second return to desktop before starting the next movie scene...is this a common issue?
- To get the Tatooine Star Map via the Krayt dragon was a bit weak after the drama of the others.
- Let Jolee wear the Star Forge robe for God's sake!
- Jawa voices a little too fast and high-pitched when compared to the films.
- Would have been cool to be able to have watched the Holocron recordings you picked up.
- Some of Bastila's arcs were a little contrived: her 'saving me' by fending off Malak and our later falling in love.
- Bandon & other Dark Jedi masters were too easy...I had more trouble with Mandalorian raiders. Tho' once in the Star Forge the Dark Jedi were quite hard.
- A Landspeeder to get around might have been a cool idea.
- Inventory system was a nightmare!
- Maybe one or two really killer blasters would have been good.
- All 3 sub-games were poor (Pazaak, Swoop & turret shoots)
- All that fuss about Malak having time to prepare the Star Forge defences and all I have to face are some weedy robots...I didn't even have to destroy them, just disabled their generators and opened the door to find Malak.
- Malak started off well, as the evil bad guy, but soon developed into nothing more than baddie cliche, with weak dialogue and cheesy laugh. Only at the very end did something interesting come out of his...erm...mouth. The final battle was challenging but might have been more interesting, say using the force to throw furniture and stuff.
- When your party members block your path...aarrgghh!!
--------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I'm glad I wrote all that...had to get it out of my system so to speak. I think I'll wait a few months before playing Sith Lords: have Tomb Raider Anniversary half-finished from last year so it's probably about time I say hi to that again soon.
I think Kotor has already made my top 10 games of all time...and I've been playing games for 20 years, tho' not very regularly. I can see why people are still actively posting on it, 5 years after it first came out.
Oh and if anyone's wondering why I chose this forum...I checked out about 5 different forums but Lucasforms appeared the most mature (me being 30 years young and all).
Anyway, happy gaming you all!
----
Reply from Ascendant Justice:
Interesting opinions that I think I'll just endlessly comment on because it's going on midnight and I have nothing better to do.
You play like I do with the gray-light mentality. The preservation of the Republic is always my priority, but I don't like the extreme of the light side, at all, which makes Jolee one of my favorites as well. If I were in the Star Wars universe I'd hate to be a jedi. Anyway, It's good that you chose to play the way "you" would. I think a big element of this kind of game is lost when someone restricts themselves to extremes of good and evil on the first playthrough. What's the point in choices when you know the answer before the choice even comes up, eh?
I always have subtitles off. I've never tried no pauses, and music is very important to me in games. It helps flesh out atmosphere and mood. I do love games that effectively rely on silence at key points, though. Sometimes no music can add much more tension and atmosphere, I'll admit. I don't think I could play a Star Wars game without music though.
I also helped ol' Rukil Wrinkle-Skin with his Promised Land. I don't much believe in it, but that's not the point for me. The entire prospect of banishing criminals to the Undercity is a horrid practice that is simply testament to the massive corruption of the (former) Tarisian government. They brought mass "criminal" numbers on themselves with their poor management. That, and, a ton of the people down there were born there, not exiled there. I don't see a reason not to let them indulge their hopes. And, hey, maybe they actually got somewhere. Quad-lasers can only reach so far down, and those massive support columns were already supporting all that weight right? Loved the atmosphere of the Undercity regardless.
One of my favorite parts in the game is talking to that computer on Kashyyyk. I look forward to that every playthrough. I actually reloaded just to go through the whole conversation again on the playthrough I'm currently on. It is a really great piece of the Infinite Empire puzzle.
Manaan is my favorite planet. I'd much enjoy vacationing in Ahto City, that's for sure. Hrakert Station is a great contrast to the sterile, Selkath controlled Ahto City. How ironic it is that it is the Selkath who snap and go on massive binges of violence. Quite amusing.
I always found the Sand People intriguing even when I was just watching A New Hope. Now we know their true history, based on HK-47's unbiased translations and extrapolations. Great first insight into the Builders (I do Tatooine first, then Kashyyyk...then Manaan, Korriban for future reference). They sure do seem to royally mess up all the planets they touch, thinking about it.
Never saw the plot twist coming, and I'm glad I didn't as some people supposedly do. The Revelation scene was jaw dropping for me because I was able to realize all the subtle clues that alluded to you being Revan throughout the game. This and Bioshock's twist are my favorite plot twists of all time.
I liked Ajunta Pall in particular. It's rare to come across a ..well...dead dark jedi that actually admits he was wrong. It was a thought provoking conversation.
I think Lehon's (unknown world) a great planet, as well. It's very Earth-like in appearance, just with a lot of enormous, crashed starships and sentient hammerhead sharks. It was refreshing, to me, to finally have contact with the remnants of the Infinite Empire.
I've never had Zaalbar do that! Though, that's probably because I've never done a full darkside playthrough. My first playthrough actually ended with the darkside ending. The plot twist and Bastila's fall were enough to make me join her on the Temple just for the amazing drama, but I never could stomach having Zaalbar murder Mission.
---------------------
I'll address some of the problems/suggestions you posted:
1: Be glad you played the PC version first. I'm on my first playthrough on PC, having had the Xbox version for years, and I'm very much enjoying the differing generic heads. Yes, that's right, it's even less diverse on the Xbox. Almost all the bearded NPC's are PC exclusive.
3: I think I've heard that you were initially intended to fight the Krayt Dragon, but that idea was discarded probably due to time constraints. It was rather anticlimactic, but at least they had Komad point that out in-game.
8: The Mandalorian commander on Dantooine that you called Seffron is actually named Sherruk. He is toughy, and I guarantee he will be the most difficult enemy you fight if you download Shem's "Sherruk Attacks with Lightsabers" mod. It makes sense because if he collects lightsabers, and has the skill to kill Jedi, he could probably use them without lopping his limbs off, right? But, needless to say, I had to resort to a small supernova's worth of mines just to possibly bring him down, depending on the saving throws he made. I almost uninstalled that mod.
9: Landspeeder travel is a possibility in TSL, though you don't actually get to drive it. It's basically a fast-transit option.
11: Did you ever visit Yavin Station? Also an exclusive to the PC version, for the most part. If you did I take it you only visited it once? Later in the game, the Baragwin weaponry there is quite killer. The Baragwin Heavy Repeater has a damage range of 7-46 fully upgraded, which is, I believe, the highest damage range in the game. It's not available until your last Star Map (right before you leave for the Star Forge you'll have to make the quick stopover to Yavin), but I mean really, that's power. There's also the Baragwin Assault Gun that's available after your third Star Map including Dantooine. It's also a repeater and has a comparably ridiculous damage range of 6-38. HK-47 has gained new influence in my game, needless to say.
12: I never really liked Pazaak just because I always felt that the AI's hand cards were secretly interchangeable depending on the circumstances. Sometimes I just couldn't believe the luck they had drawing like five 1's that set them up perfectly for the magical +/-4 card they had for the second time. Maybe I just suck at it. I actually liked the swoop racing when I played on Xbox. However, KotOR doesn't run perfectly on my PC, even though it should according to Bioware's recommended requirements (which I think are very flawed). Swoop races laggy enough that I can't reasonably play them. So I was forced to download an easy swoop races mod just to do them. If you don't like the racing but still need the credits and want to do the quests associated with them, you might consider downloading it. I didn't mind the turret shooting, but I do hate how the encounters are random. I can't see how Sith Fighters can attack you at Dantooine. Malak would have bombarded the academy as soon as he found it with those fighters. Maybe there's a mod to fix that too.
15: Very annoying. Don't know what else to say lol.
------------------------------
One last word of advice: In regards to TSL, you may want to wait to play that until Team Gizka finishes their massive Restoration Project. It seems they're getting very close, even though the bug count shouldn't be used as a timetable. If you're planning on waiting a couple months anyway, it shouldn't be a problem. I know I'm not buying TSL for PC until Team Gizka releases their masterpiece, though. I'm very excited for it.
Ok. I think I'm done. Long post...I didn't mean to hijack the thread away from you, just wanted to post my own thoughts in accordance with yours. Welcome to LucasForums!
----
dholl retort:
Great reply, thanks for the insights. Some very useful tips too. Seen as it's...um...1030 in the morning I think I'll reply in kind as well.
Yeah, those poor Jedi. We can compare them to monks or buddhists if we want the Earth equivalent. Us grey players just wouldn't cut it in that environment. I guess one school of thought is that a Jedi-hopeful will never properly maximise force sensitivity if s/he does not veer completely to the light or dark. Much like an eggtimer will only run if completely turned to one end. If we indisciplined greys are sort of lounging to one side then the sand never flows through all the way, but rather keeps only say two-thirds of our sand in one end while the rest of the weight is kind of sifting hither and thither.
Diluted, unconcentrated weight of force = jack of all trades, Jedi-master of none.
But I hazard if the Force didn't have such jacks (greys) then there truly wouldn't be a balance, an order in the Force...one end (side) would always be heavier.
We greys are in fact the true saviours, our presence perpetually restores the balance in the Force...
dear oh dear...what am I on?
Alright next discussion: I understand why you play with the music on...I certainly love the music during the movie scenes, but during play itself It starts to grate and I lost the feel of 'being there'. I have likely missed out on some extra drama tho'...I think I read here somewhere a description of a Kotor scene where the music piped up and made the moment even more memorable. But if you do still play yourself try the no-pauses options...you feel like you're really fighting.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is some fan-fiction out there detailing The fate of the Undercity crew, they almost certainly survived the onslaught and humans can survive mass exoduses as has been shown in our past many times over.
The Rakata...I would like to hear more as to how they fell...fell so hard that the Republic had no mention of them, yet they were the fabled Builders of the Hyperspace routes. I think all we know so far, at least from canon sources, is that the Force disowned them...and thus their empire fell apart, yet the Starforge remained. There's more to mine from this arc, for sure.
I quite like Manaan too, the political layers there are intriguing and the Selkath a good example of a race that would survive most apocalypses. But it wasn't clear if they do space travel.
Regarding the Sandpeople, it is a joy to see how much depth can be created in such minor characters. I used to be a Star Trek watcher (I wouldn't say fan but I have seen most of the Original and TNG) and always thought that franchise had the biggest potential expanded universe but in fact, it is the genius of the Star Wars films (even the prequels) that has proven, to me, more expandable. I think because the Star Wars races and concepts are somehow more memorable, and thus more inspiring to fill in the blank canvas. Some Star Trek episodes were very fine drama...but I was never interested in an expanded history of any of the participants.
Bioshock, eh? I plan to start a new PC build soon...then I'll be ready for these newer games. I tried the Bioshock demo but it ran not so well. Like most post-2007 games in fact.
Ajunta Pall was interesting, but I was disappointed he was still ready to fight after his speech...that there was no option to pacify him, unless I missed it?
I only had Zaalbar do that because, well, if I was gonna go dark then I might as well go dark. Did you have to kill Mission yourself anyway? I guess that wasn't too pleasant either.
---------------------
Problems/suggestions:
8: Wow, Sherruk with lightsabres. Hard B'stard then!
11: Yeah, I went there first before any planet because it had no name and I wanted to know what it was...after the visit I actually forgot about it. Those blaster stats are nuts! If I'd have realised this I would have gone back and then also had HK instead of a Jedi.
12: What's your PC stats? My game ran perfect (apart from the slight cut between movie scenes I described in my first post). I had high textures, 1024 x 764, selected all graphical effects and had x2 filter & alias (or whatever those options were).
Windows XP SP2
AMD 3000 (2.1Ghz)
1.2GB RAM
NX6200 Gforce 256MB (a €50 AGP card)
Semi-pro audio card
Old school Nokia 21" monitor (the kind that weighs as much as a fully-grown meatbag)
TSL: that's excellent advice...I'll wait for that Gizka project.
Thanks for the welcome, I'm glad I found this forum. I've been trying to wax lyrical about Kotor to a mate but he's more interested in Oblivion so this here is a good outlet.
I finished this masterpiece the other day after 2 weeks & almost 70 hours of gaming - I enjoyed it so much that I've been reading this forum and Wookiepedia ever since. I thought as an act of post-game therapy I'd record my impressions of it here...some of you might want to read it or comment and note your own impressions too.
Just a note on how I played: PC version as Level 1 male Scout and later Consular - Normal difficulty, with all pauses turned off (by the time I got to fighting the Raghouls anyway) and music & subtitles also off. This created an intense and real atmosphere, especially for the battles. I generally had exclusively Jedi in my party.
Order of planets: Kashyyyk - Manaan - Tatooine - Korriban (no reason for this order, had no clue what to expect).
In all roleplaying games I like to act as I would in real-life, so pretty much followed the light-to-grey tho' took liberties in the bounty hunting and the odd unimportant moment, then after finishing the game reloaded my Temple savepoint to join Bastila to finish it darkside.
I cheated twice...ouch! When I couldn't find the Changeling in the Shadowlands and when I couldn't work out how to clear the runed-up pillar blocking the bridge in one of the Korriban temples I relented and looked the solutions up in a walkthrough...it took some skilful skimmed reading to make sure I didn't read any spoilers inadvertantly!
How I killed Malak: Thermal Detonators!
Main impression:
----------------
- Knights Of The Old Republic made me love the Star Wars universe again...not since I stopped playing with my toys back in the late 1980's have I been so interested in Star Wars. Not even the prequel films managed it (their poor dialogue, contrived plotting and over-reliance on CGI caused much disinterest).
Story bits I liked (in order of when they happened):
----------------------------------------------------
- The Promised Land: such a small side quest yet has so much depth you could write a book about it...I hope they made it.
- The Kashyyyk computer: this was the moment when I realised I am so into this game, the fascinating Q&A with the computer, realising that I had to answer darkside to get it to open...brilliantly written and presented, and perfectly matched to the eerie Shadowlands environment.
- Hearing of how the Selgath went crazy and were ripping the scientists to shreds...horror imagery at its most suggestive.
- The Sandpeople story, expertly relayed by HK-47.
- What? I am Revan? Wow! I was expecting Revan to make an appearance but more as a temporary addition to your party at some point later in the game. I really grew into the role and preferred to be Revan so never chose the "I'm not Revan anymore, I'm blah"...yet still remain on the grey or light side. I had some delusions of wanting to unite the Sith and Republic but it never panned out like that!
- Valley Of The Dark Lords was a great addition...dark and mysterious and interesting.
- The Unknown planet had a well-balanced sense of mystery which was cleared up well by the game's dialogue and story arc.
- Zaalbar slaying Mission...man, that was so dark. Ol' Madclaw always did carry an air of tragedy about him anyway.
Other bits I liked:
---------------------
- "1...2...smart"
- The Duel Announcer on Taris...he was great!
- Bastila trips up Mission using the force, hehe.
- The funniest line not to come from HK-47? When Bastila for the umpteenth time goes on about "Beware of the dark side, for temptation is bad blah blah blah" and I answer "Ok, you better warn me. How about, blink once for Light and twice for Dark?" Hahahaha!
- One of my favourite battles was with Seffron (Soffru?) and his Mandalorian gang on Dantooine...it got really messy and chaotic, then it was just me and him left...I lured him behind a speedster where I had previously set mines...he still survived but was weakened, as was I...I risked a frag grenade at close range...BOOM! I survive with like 1% health and he dead! Phew!
- A clever touch after Dantooine was Garth complaining (for a change) that he's been feeling left out because I'd been using Canderous a lot while Garth didn't take part in Dantooine at all and likely felt miffed that the Mandalorian was personally present as the Jedi Council discussed the top-secret Star Forge plans where as he, the Republic war hero, was on kitchen duty!
- "You can't get me, fishy fishy...oh no you can't...because I'm quite safe, yes...safe from you fishy wishy." Proper crazy!
- The Leviathan: which party member should attempt our rescue? That's easy...T3 was so perfect for the job I was actually convinced he would have been the only choice anyway...only later I found out in these forums you could use the others as well. T3 was already a bit of a legend as he was my bounty hunter for the Glenoradran while I solo'd off talking to the merchant or hiding behind hillls...thus rendering me innocent should I get caught! Suspending disbelief they call that.
- So I'm at the Sith Academy and these Sith apprentices are challlenging me to say something interesting to save some sad hopefuls..."Let me tell you the one about the Mandalorian..." Haha! I bet Canderous would have found it funny too but I don't think he was in my party at that point.
- "I choose...me." After the final temple on Korriban: ripping the hell out of the Sith master, his double-crossing apprentice, and the entire academy. I was so strong at this point that battles were easy...and it felt so right, me rediscovering my Revan-ness and all. I dispatched those two in quick time, then went to the academy and took care of all of them like the anteater hoovers up his prey. The Dark Lord reborn! Yet still I was lightside. I enjoyed that.
- The mysterious box: what an interesting concept. Would have been good to have tied this in with the Unknown World story a bit.
The best characters:
--------------------
- Canderous & Jolee...Canderous is definitely morally bankrupt ("I killed women and children") and Jolee tries to pass himself off as a typical old coot...but both are very deep, funny, true characters who would have enriched the prequel films.
- HK-47...I got him quite late on as I did Tatooine second-to-last. I was so entertained talking to him, what a star!
General things I liked:
-----------------------
- The Force Powers were a joy to use.
- All the voice acting was absolute top, from the alien voices the male Twi'lik's were particularly good.
- The Czerka Corporation was well realised as a believable entity.
- Julhani might have been a bit boring, but she was hot and a great fighter. Only now thanks to reading these forums do I hear she has lesbianic tendencies...which makes her even hotter.
- The Star Forge is a worthy chase. More interesting than even the Death Star.
Observations, suggestions and things that might have been better:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
- The repeated faces and alien speech got wearing.
- Between scenes of movie all audio would cut out and my screen would for a split second return to desktop before starting the next movie scene...is this a common issue?
- To get the Tatooine Star Map via the Krayt dragon was a bit weak after the drama of the others.
- Let Jolee wear the Star Forge robe for God's sake!
- Jawa voices a little too fast and high-pitched when compared to the films.
- Would have been cool to be able to have watched the Holocron recordings you picked up.
- Some of Bastila's arcs were a little contrived: her 'saving me' by fending off Malak and our later falling in love.
- Bandon & other Dark Jedi masters were too easy...I had more trouble with Mandalorian raiders. Tho' once in the Star Forge the Dark Jedi were quite hard.
- A Landspeeder to get around might have been a cool idea.
- Inventory system was a nightmare!
- Maybe one or two really killer blasters would have been good.
- All 3 sub-games were poor (Pazaak, Swoop & turret shoots)
- All that fuss about Malak having time to prepare the Star Forge defences and all I have to face are some weedy robots...I didn't even have to destroy them, just disabled their generators and opened the door to find Malak.
- Malak started off well, as the evil bad guy, but soon developed into nothing more than baddie cliche, with weak dialogue and cheesy laugh. Only at the very end did something interesting come out of his...erm...mouth. The final battle was challenging but might have been more interesting, say using the force to throw furniture and stuff.
- When your party members block your path...aarrgghh!!
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Well, I'm glad I wrote all that...had to get it out of my system so to speak. I think I'll wait a few months before playing Sith Lords: have Tomb Raider Anniversary half-finished from last year so it's probably about time I say hi to that again soon.
I think Kotor has already made my top 10 games of all time...and I've been playing games for 20 years, tho' not very regularly. I can see why people are still actively posting on it, 5 years after it first came out.
Oh and if anyone's wondering why I chose this forum...I checked out about 5 different forums but Lucasforms appeared the most mature (me being 30 years young and all).
Anyway, happy gaming you all!
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Reply from Ascendant Justice:
Interesting opinions that I think I'll just endlessly comment on because it's going on midnight and I have nothing better to do.
You play like I do with the gray-light mentality. The preservation of the Republic is always my priority, but I don't like the extreme of the light side, at all, which makes Jolee one of my favorites as well. If I were in the Star Wars universe I'd hate to be a jedi. Anyway, It's good that you chose to play the way "you" would. I think a big element of this kind of game is lost when someone restricts themselves to extremes of good and evil on the first playthrough. What's the point in choices when you know the answer before the choice even comes up, eh?
I always have subtitles off. I've never tried no pauses, and music is very important to me in games. It helps flesh out atmosphere and mood. I do love games that effectively rely on silence at key points, though. Sometimes no music can add much more tension and atmosphere, I'll admit. I don't think I could play a Star Wars game without music though.
I also helped ol' Rukil Wrinkle-Skin with his Promised Land. I don't much believe in it, but that's not the point for me. The entire prospect of banishing criminals to the Undercity is a horrid practice that is simply testament to the massive corruption of the (former) Tarisian government. They brought mass "criminal" numbers on themselves with their poor management. That, and, a ton of the people down there were born there, not exiled there. I don't see a reason not to let them indulge their hopes. And, hey, maybe they actually got somewhere. Quad-lasers can only reach so far down, and those massive support columns were already supporting all that weight right? Loved the atmosphere of the Undercity regardless.
One of my favorite parts in the game is talking to that computer on Kashyyyk. I look forward to that every playthrough. I actually reloaded just to go through the whole conversation again on the playthrough I'm currently on. It is a really great piece of the Infinite Empire puzzle.
Manaan is my favorite planet. I'd much enjoy vacationing in Ahto City, that's for sure. Hrakert Station is a great contrast to the sterile, Selkath controlled Ahto City. How ironic it is that it is the Selkath who snap and go on massive binges of violence. Quite amusing.
I always found the Sand People intriguing even when I was just watching A New Hope. Now we know their true history, based on HK-47's unbiased translations and extrapolations. Great first insight into the Builders (I do Tatooine first, then Kashyyyk...then Manaan, Korriban for future reference). They sure do seem to royally mess up all the planets they touch, thinking about it.
Never saw the plot twist coming, and I'm glad I didn't as some people supposedly do. The Revelation scene was jaw dropping for me because I was able to realize all the subtle clues that alluded to you being Revan throughout the game. This and Bioshock's twist are my favorite plot twists of all time.
I liked Ajunta Pall in particular. It's rare to come across a ..well...dead dark jedi that actually admits he was wrong. It was a thought provoking conversation.
I think Lehon's (unknown world) a great planet, as well. It's very Earth-like in appearance, just with a lot of enormous, crashed starships and sentient hammerhead sharks. It was refreshing, to me, to finally have contact with the remnants of the Infinite Empire.
I've never had Zaalbar do that! Though, that's probably because I've never done a full darkside playthrough. My first playthrough actually ended with the darkside ending. The plot twist and Bastila's fall were enough to make me join her on the Temple just for the amazing drama, but I never could stomach having Zaalbar murder Mission.
---------------------
I'll address some of the problems/suggestions you posted:
1: Be glad you played the PC version first. I'm on my first playthrough on PC, having had the Xbox version for years, and I'm very much enjoying the differing generic heads. Yes, that's right, it's even less diverse on the Xbox. Almost all the bearded NPC's are PC exclusive.
3: I think I've heard that you were initially intended to fight the Krayt Dragon, but that idea was discarded probably due to time constraints. It was rather anticlimactic, but at least they had Komad point that out in-game.
8: The Mandalorian commander on Dantooine that you called Seffron is actually named Sherruk. He is toughy, and I guarantee he will be the most difficult enemy you fight if you download Shem's "Sherruk Attacks with Lightsabers" mod. It makes sense because if he collects lightsabers, and has the skill to kill Jedi, he could probably use them without lopping his limbs off, right? But, needless to say, I had to resort to a small supernova's worth of mines just to possibly bring him down, depending on the saving throws he made. I almost uninstalled that mod.
9: Landspeeder travel is a possibility in TSL, though you don't actually get to drive it. It's basically a fast-transit option.
11: Did you ever visit Yavin Station? Also an exclusive to the PC version, for the most part. If you did I take it you only visited it once? Later in the game, the Baragwin weaponry there is quite killer. The Baragwin Heavy Repeater has a damage range of 7-46 fully upgraded, which is, I believe, the highest damage range in the game. It's not available until your last Star Map (right before you leave for the Star Forge you'll have to make the quick stopover to Yavin), but I mean really, that's power. There's also the Baragwin Assault Gun that's available after your third Star Map including Dantooine. It's also a repeater and has a comparably ridiculous damage range of 6-38. HK-47 has gained new influence in my game, needless to say.
12: I never really liked Pazaak just because I always felt that the AI's hand cards were secretly interchangeable depending on the circumstances. Sometimes I just couldn't believe the luck they had drawing like five 1's that set them up perfectly for the magical +/-4 card they had for the second time. Maybe I just suck at it. I actually liked the swoop racing when I played on Xbox. However, KotOR doesn't run perfectly on my PC, even though it should according to Bioware's recommended requirements (which I think are very flawed). Swoop races laggy enough that I can't reasonably play them. So I was forced to download an easy swoop races mod just to do them. If you don't like the racing but still need the credits and want to do the quests associated with them, you might consider downloading it. I didn't mind the turret shooting, but I do hate how the encounters are random. I can't see how Sith Fighters can attack you at Dantooine. Malak would have bombarded the academy as soon as he found it with those fighters. Maybe there's a mod to fix that too.
15: Very annoying. Don't know what else to say lol.
------------------------------
One last word of advice: In regards to TSL, you may want to wait to play that until Team Gizka finishes their massive Restoration Project. It seems they're getting very close, even though the bug count shouldn't be used as a timetable. If you're planning on waiting a couple months anyway, it shouldn't be a problem. I know I'm not buying TSL for PC until Team Gizka releases their masterpiece, though. I'm very excited for it.
Ok. I think I'm done. Long post...I didn't mean to hijack the thread away from you, just wanted to post my own thoughts in accordance with yours. Welcome to LucasForums!
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dholl retort:
Great reply, thanks for the insights. Some very useful tips too. Seen as it's...um...1030 in the morning I think I'll reply in kind as well.
Yeah, those poor Jedi. We can compare them to monks or buddhists if we want the Earth equivalent. Us grey players just wouldn't cut it in that environment. I guess one school of thought is that a Jedi-hopeful will never properly maximise force sensitivity if s/he does not veer completely to the light or dark. Much like an eggtimer will only run if completely turned to one end. If we indisciplined greys are sort of lounging to one side then the sand never flows through all the way, but rather keeps only say two-thirds of our sand in one end while the rest of the weight is kind of sifting hither and thither.
Diluted, unconcentrated weight of force = jack of all trades, Jedi-master of none.
But I hazard if the Force didn't have such jacks (greys) then there truly wouldn't be a balance, an order in the Force...one end (side) would always be heavier.
We greys are in fact the true saviours, our presence perpetually restores the balance in the Force...
dear oh dear...what am I on?
Alright next discussion: I understand why you play with the music on...I certainly love the music during the movie scenes, but during play itself It starts to grate and I lost the feel of 'being there'. I have likely missed out on some extra drama tho'...I think I read here somewhere a description of a Kotor scene where the music piped up and made the moment even more memorable. But if you do still play yourself try the no-pauses options...you feel like you're really fighting.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is some fan-fiction out there detailing The fate of the Undercity crew, they almost certainly survived the onslaught and humans can survive mass exoduses as has been shown in our past many times over.
The Rakata...I would like to hear more as to how they fell...fell so hard that the Republic had no mention of them, yet they were the fabled Builders of the Hyperspace routes. I think all we know so far, at least from canon sources, is that the Force disowned them...and thus their empire fell apart, yet the Starforge remained. There's more to mine from this arc, for sure.
I quite like Manaan too, the political layers there are intriguing and the Selkath a good example of a race that would survive most apocalypses. But it wasn't clear if they do space travel.
Regarding the Sandpeople, it is a joy to see how much depth can be created in such minor characters. I used to be a Star Trek watcher (I wouldn't say fan but I have seen most of the Original and TNG) and always thought that franchise had the biggest potential expanded universe but in fact, it is the genius of the Star Wars films (even the prequels) that has proven, to me, more expandable. I think because the Star Wars races and concepts are somehow more memorable, and thus more inspiring to fill in the blank canvas. Some Star Trek episodes were very fine drama...but I was never interested in an expanded history of any of the participants.
Bioshock, eh? I plan to start a new PC build soon...then I'll be ready for these newer games. I tried the Bioshock demo but it ran not so well. Like most post-2007 games in fact.
Ajunta Pall was interesting, but I was disappointed he was still ready to fight after his speech...that there was no option to pacify him, unless I missed it?
I only had Zaalbar do that because, well, if I was gonna go dark then I might as well go dark. Did you have to kill Mission yourself anyway? I guess that wasn't too pleasant either.
---------------------
Problems/suggestions:
8: Wow, Sherruk with lightsabres. Hard B'stard then!
11: Yeah, I went there first before any planet because it had no name and I wanted to know what it was...after the visit I actually forgot about it. Those blaster stats are nuts! If I'd have realised this I would have gone back and then also had HK instead of a Jedi.
12: What's your PC stats? My game ran perfect (apart from the slight cut between movie scenes I described in my first post). I had high textures, 1024 x 764, selected all graphical effects and had x2 filter & alias (or whatever those options were).
Windows XP SP2
AMD 3000 (2.1Ghz)
1.2GB RAM
NX6200 Gforce 256MB (a €50 AGP card)
Semi-pro audio card
Old school Nokia 21" monitor (the kind that weighs as much as a fully-grown meatbag)
TSL: that's excellent advice...I'll wait for that Gizka project.
Thanks for the welcome, I'm glad I found this forum. I've been trying to wax lyrical about Kotor to a mate but he's more interested in Oblivion so this here is a good outlet.
The Real Lost roleplay
I don't watch telly, but I do watch Lost. After watching the Desmond-led episode "Constant" I was so impressed and 'into it' that I registered at the biggest Lost forum on the web, and started a role-play.
Me being the darren, meant that I never continued what I started, I vanished and forgot about it...only just now logging in again for the first time in months to find pages of thread continuance and a handful of pm's asking me when is it gonna start proper.
Too late now, seen as the story has gone down the particular arc it has, but here is the master post...just for fun:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING! SPOILERS IF YOU ARE NOT WATCHING THE LATEST EPISODES!
------------------------------------------------
Scenario:
Introduction:
We, in this reality, this very real life we have, meet here at the Fuselage. During the course of the first 3 and-a-bit seasons we get to know each other via masses of commenting and arrange a few meetups via the Caves & Beaches board here on this website. We eventually arrange a trip to where we believe the fictional island to be...just for fun. We are Lost fans and what better excuse for a trip to exotic isles than to pretend we are on a mission to find the island?
We settle on Easter Island - mainly because we all wanted to visit it anyway, and it is suitably mysterious and interesting, if lacking in jungle.
After many rounds of emails there are eventually 8 of us who are definitely up for it, and we decide to first all meet in Santiago, Chile. This we do and after a merry evening of party and the potential sowing of a romantic entanglement or two, we take the early morning flight to the island in anticipation of our sordid Lost roleplays that we've been planning.
------------------------------------------------
Event:
The flight to Easter Island experiences difficulties...the plane goes down...all is black.
And then:
Slowly people start coming to...the plane is a burning wreckage. It is very dark. After a very long and confusing time, we 8 manage to gather ourselves and realise that all the other passengers, including the attendants and cockpit crew, are all dead.
We are all in shock, but one or two pull themselves together and start escorting our group away from the plane.
It is very dark, the sky is black. From the light from the little burning that still lingers we can make out some trees and miscellaneous greenery. It does not appear we are in a wide open space.
We decide to sit together and think...
------------------------------------------------
Where we really are yet none of us know it yet:
We have transcended our reality and entered the Lost universe. We are in the middle of thick, green jungle.
We are on The Island. It is real.
The characters we know as characters are, in this reality upon which we have stumbled...very real.
The events of the last episode we watched (the current one playing on ABC) have just occurred for real here. The Lost camp is split between Locke and Jack; Sayid, Des & Frank are on the boat.
------------------------------------------------
How this works:
The idea is that we begin with the 8 leads, which is us Lost fans who made the trip, sitting by the plane wreckage in pitch black trying to remain calm and make sense of the situation. We do not know if we crashed on Easter Island or on any other bit of land.
The first 7 Fuselage members who are interested simply reply and claim the next available person...in this case person number 2.
When we have all 8 we can commence with the story, which should develop freely, yet also remain constant and consistent with the Lost story that is being shown on ABC.
Other members interested can be a Lost character (claim one now if you want), and can come in-and-out of the story at will.
TWO RULES:
Rule 1.
If you are not one of the 8 (and/or if and when the 8 split) then you must state at the top of your post where you are, and who you are with, something like this:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bernard is by the stream with Rose, approximately 2 miles west from the 8 and their plane wreckage.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And thus, you guys can have your own little story or chat or comic relief or whatever.
Rule 2.
Anything related to the Lost characters must be in keeping with the actual goings on of the current season. So no Charlie or Eko. No Sayid talking to Jack on the beach (until they meet up again in the episodes themselves of course).
------------------------------------------------
The Challenge! The challenge is how are we going to introduce the losties to the 8? What a shocker! How are the 8 gonna tell the losties that they know all about them, their backstories, their secrets...and that they're meant to be just characters in a TV show, with actors playing them. How will the 8 question their own reality and existence?
The Challenge! How will we manage jumping from scene-to-scene, from group-to-group, without it getting all confusing? Is there no way to do some colour-coding or something?
------------------------------------------------
CAST:
The 8: (these names were post-edited later from the interested peeps...becoming 11)
1 - James "Pucus" Adams. Male. Age 14. From Australia. (Pucus)
2 - Bruce "Cd" Norris. Age 14. Male. From Australia. (CharliesDrugs)
3 - Naf. Age 17. Male. From Australia (>Quarintine<) 4 - Alex Ewing. Male. Age 18. From Maryland. (Alex Ewing 5 - Jack Sawyer. Male. Age 30. From Toronto (Jack Sawyer) 6 - Greg. Male. Age 18. From San Fransico (-DJ-) 7 - Saskia. Female. Age 22. Scotland.(lost for words) 8 - Darren. Male. Age 29. Germany. (dhollmusik) 9.- Claud. Female. Age 30's. From New England. 10. Blue. Female. Age 25. From America. 11. Kris. Female. Age 20. From Asia.
Losties:
Jack -
Locke -
Sawyer - -DJ-
Sayid -
Kate - LadyKateBird
Claire -
Rose -
Bernard -
Jin -
Sun - Bluecoral
Hugo -
Others:
Ben -
Desmond -
Penny -
Juliet -
Frank -
Daniel -
Charlotte -
Miles -
Danielle -
Alex -
Karl - Pucus
Christian -
Abbadon -
(more can be added if the ABC season adds them - or if I've forgotton anyone)
------------------------------------------------
I have no idea if this will raise any interest or not...but it was fun writing it anyway.
I'll check back after the next episode has aired to see if there's any interest. Remember, all you have to do for now is reply and claim a character. It would be good if the 8 was mixed boys & girls.
Opinions and suggestions are of course very welcome.
Viel Spaß!!
Me being the darren, meant that I never continued what I started, I vanished and forgot about it...only just now logging in again for the first time in months to find pages of thread continuance and a handful of pm's asking me when is it gonna start proper.
Too late now, seen as the story has gone down the particular arc it has, but here is the master post...just for fun:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Real Lost (running live with latest episodes)
WARNING! SPOILERS IF YOU ARE NOT WATCHING THE LATEST EPISODES!
------------------------------------------------
Scenario:
Introduction:
We, in this reality, this very real life we have, meet here at the Fuselage. During the course of the first 3 and-a-bit seasons we get to know each other via masses of commenting and arrange a few meetups via the Caves & Beaches board here on this website. We eventually arrange a trip to where we believe the fictional island to be...just for fun. We are Lost fans and what better excuse for a trip to exotic isles than to pretend we are on a mission to find the island?
We settle on Easter Island - mainly because we all wanted to visit it anyway, and it is suitably mysterious and interesting, if lacking in jungle.
After many rounds of emails there are eventually 8 of us who are definitely up for it, and we decide to first all meet in Santiago, Chile. This we do and after a merry evening of party and the potential sowing of a romantic entanglement or two, we take the early morning flight to the island in anticipation of our sordid Lost roleplays that we've been planning.
------------------------------------------------
Event:
The flight to Easter Island experiences difficulties...the plane goes down...all is black.
And then:
Slowly people start coming to...the plane is a burning wreckage. It is very dark. After a very long and confusing time, we 8 manage to gather ourselves and realise that all the other passengers, including the attendants and cockpit crew, are all dead.
We are all in shock, but one or two pull themselves together and start escorting our group away from the plane.
It is very dark, the sky is black. From the light from the little burning that still lingers we can make out some trees and miscellaneous greenery. It does not appear we are in a wide open space.
We decide to sit together and think...
------------------------------------------------
Where we really are yet none of us know it yet:
We have transcended our reality and entered the Lost universe. We are in the middle of thick, green jungle.
We are on The Island. It is real.
The characters we know as characters are, in this reality upon which we have stumbled...very real.
The events of the last episode we watched (the current one playing on ABC) have just occurred for real here. The Lost camp is split between Locke and Jack; Sayid, Des & Frank are on the boat.
------------------------------------------------
How this works:
The idea is that we begin with the 8 leads, which is us Lost fans who made the trip, sitting by the plane wreckage in pitch black trying to remain calm and make sense of the situation. We do not know if we crashed on Easter Island or on any other bit of land.
The first 7 Fuselage members who are interested simply reply and claim the next available person...in this case person number 2.
When we have all 8 we can commence with the story, which should develop freely, yet also remain constant and consistent with the Lost story that is being shown on ABC.
Other members interested can be a Lost character (claim one now if you want), and can come in-and-out of the story at will.
TWO RULES:
Rule 1.
If you are not one of the 8 (and/or if and when the 8 split) then you must state at the top of your post where you are, and who you are with, something like this:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bernard is by the stream with Rose, approximately 2 miles west from the 8 and their plane wreckage.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And thus, you guys can have your own little story or chat or comic relief or whatever.
Rule 2.
Anything related to the Lost characters must be in keeping with the actual goings on of the current season. So no Charlie or Eko. No Sayid talking to Jack on the beach (until they meet up again in the episodes themselves of course).
------------------------------------------------
The Challenge! The challenge is how are we going to introduce the losties to the 8? What a shocker! How are the 8 gonna tell the losties that they know all about them, their backstories, their secrets...and that they're meant to be just characters in a TV show, with actors playing them. How will the 8 question their own reality and existence?
The Challenge! How will we manage jumping from scene-to-scene, from group-to-group, without it getting all confusing? Is there no way to do some colour-coding or something?
------------------------------------------------
CAST:
The 8: (these names were post-edited later from the interested peeps...becoming 11)
1 - James "Pucus" Adams. Male. Age 14. From Australia. (Pucus)
2 - Bruce "Cd" Norris. Age 14. Male. From Australia. (CharliesDrugs)
3 - Naf. Age 17. Male. From Australia (>Quarintine<) 4 - Alex Ewing. Male. Age 18. From Maryland. (Alex Ewing 5 - Jack Sawyer. Male. Age 30. From Toronto (Jack Sawyer) 6 - Greg. Male. Age 18. From San Fransico (-DJ-) 7 - Saskia. Female. Age 22. Scotland.(lost for words) 8 - Darren. Male. Age 29. Germany. (dhollmusik) 9.- Claud. Female. Age 30's. From New England. 10. Blue. Female. Age 25. From America. 11. Kris. Female. Age 20. From Asia.
Losties:
Jack -
Locke -
Sawyer - -DJ-
Sayid -
Kate - LadyKateBird
Claire -
Rose -
Bernard -
Jin -
Sun - Bluecoral
Hugo -
Others:
Ben -
Desmond -
Penny -
Juliet -
Frank -
Daniel -
Charlotte -
Miles -
Danielle -
Alex -
Karl - Pucus
Christian -
Abbadon -
(more can be added if the ABC season adds them - or if I've forgotton anyone)
------------------------------------------------
I have no idea if this will raise any interest or not...but it was fun writing it anyway.
I'll check back after the next episode has aired to see if there's any interest. Remember, all you have to do for now is reply and claim a character. It would be good if the 8 was mixed boys & girls.
Opinions and suggestions are of course very welcome.
Viel Spaß!!
Thursday, 23 October 2008
Faith Freedom?
www.faithfreedom.org houses some very one-eyed discussions, but sometimes it is also home to intelligent and perceptive commenters lyrically waxing the nature and merits of organised religion in a world where secularity and agnosticism are equally present, at least in Western societies. The site chiefly encourages the apostasy of Muslims through debate. That means most threads are love-ins for self-congratulatory and sometimes very paranoid anti-Islam crowds.
I signed up and used the "elseedy" moniker, which is the name of a music collective we had in London, but on this site sounds like an Arabic surname (it's not very common). I wanted to
humanise and balance some of the more vicious threads going on, with interesting effects. I also wanted to discuss general theology of a more final nature.
Below are various statements without surrounding thready context made by the seedy me from different threads during Autumn 2007 (the dholl seeds are a store, see):
-----------------------
On the inherent intention of conflict from every Muslim:
You may influence the thinking of a Muslim if he (or she) is naturally a compassionate and open person. For example I was discussing the murder of the dutch playwrite, Theo van Gogh, and my friend (arab, life-long and devoted Muslim to the point where he freely admits Islam comes first, family second) pointed to a picture of the poor man's prone and very dead body with a knife sticking out his chest and proclaimed:
"I respect the man who did this."
I believe this was an automatic response from him. After much passionate debate from both where we reminded each other that Islam means peace and such hysterical reactions are gross signs of weakness he eventually conceded and changed his mind to say that the murder of van Gogh was wrong.
Although still very much against any form of Islam-baiting my friend at least has shown me signs that there are ways to debate intelligently with Muslims. I think from the Muslim-end should come many concessions to:
Peace, Humanity, Love, Understanding, Forgiveness, Education, Maturity
when discussing and reacting to such difficult issues like the van Gogh incident or the Muhammad caricatures from Denmark.
Yet...yet who am I to know for sure he really did change his mind?
see wiki for the van Gogh story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_%28film_director%29
-----------------------
On Halal food:
Dönerläden and the like are everywhere, even in smaller German cities. The average person (like me) would rather eat out at local German eateries but does not have this choice as they are either closed for the day, have old and over-priced foods or are closed forever. Instead s/he eats at the Turkish or Arabic late-nighters and actually thinks the food is okay, good value and convenient.
Similar story with the food markets. I would like to support the German growers but their tomatoes are soggy and wrinkly, cucumbers are leaking water and the apples are bruised. The Turks however, are combining fresh goods with competitive pricing...
Capitalism at its mightiest! Oh, the irony!!
I'm thinking of doing some research actually. Where the produce from the Turkish and Arabic family stands comes from. Mayhap they come from local German farms anyway.
-----------------------
On fighting the Muslim threat by invoking the figure of 3000 dead from 9/11:
Okay, fine. So what about the unknown 5- or 6-figure death toll in Iraq since the USA-led invasion?
I think most victims (about 99%) were muslim. Hopefully that was not for nothing either.
-----------------------
On aggressive passages from the book of Islam, the Qur'an:
...what are you so afraid of? I live in Berlin where almost 10% of the population are Muslim. I lived in London for many years that had similar numbers. I would prefer it if the muslim communities wanted to integrate more but it's only been a couple of generations. I think time will heal most problems.
I only wish that there were more stable non-muslim family units with lots of babies as this invasion of Islam of which you speak may turn out to be sort of true, simply due to strength of their family units and having plenty children.
Additionally, one of the most important features of what I would call my culture (West-European) is the secularism of its state(s)...this, of course (contrary to what most Muslims would want) should remain.
I don't believe there is a cunning masterplan from Islam to invade Europe...the logistics alone are too complicated (a book, some mosques and an ideology is not enough).
You need to ask the question: why did the first-generationers move from their Islamic country of birth to a progressive and free(-ish) non-Islamic nation?
The answer is generally economical rather than anything sinister.
I have not personally experienced any fight from Muslims pertaining to those quotes from your last post. One could probably make a case that the London attacks from July 2005, orchestrated by British Muslims, were inspired by such translations but if there was a proper all-Muslim Jihad then there would be absolute anarchy.
I can only hazard that those quotes came from a time of war...it would be interesting to hear a Muslim's response to todays' validity of them:
- "Trust in God if the enemy wants peace"...meaning to agree with the peace. Or slay the enemy if the enemy wants war.
That sounds reasonable enough.
-----------------------
On making the Islam faith illegal in Western societies:
I think we should ban evil murdering nutcases...but I don't know how. I don't think banning the Qur'an will help much.
-----------------------
On criticism of my use of rough statistics:
...intending only a rough figure to make a point rather than using cold statistics to back up an argument.
-----------------------
On Islam and Christianity being the same, except run by different people:
Some boths include:
Both have a book which guides/regulates/governs them, detailing among others:
- the literal 6-day (with the 7th as a rest day) creation of our planet.
- Adam and Eve are the literal parents of everybody.
- the Noah's Ark and Abraham legends.
- Both have violently defended their faiths.
- Both have proven their inflexibility, ignorance and discrimination in countless historical examples.
- Both have claimed the attempt to instill basic humanity-based morals into which most good people live by.
- Both have wars to their name. Or rather both were used to cover up wars for land, power and control issues.
I can plainly see the logic in Intelligent Design Theory. I can just as clearly understand the Chaos Theory. The designer creates then leaves for Chaos to govern.
I cannot believe in an organised religion when there are dozens of Christian/Catholic off-shoots, when there are some Muslims who drink alcohol and others who do not, when there is also Hinduism, Buddhism, rabid atheism and god-knows what else. When there are questionable rules and contradictory morals.
They can't all be right. How can Islam be the correct one if it shares its history with its supposed rival? How can Christianity be correct when some reverends preach that Jesus is God himself and others say that that is fallacy, he was actually the son? Not-to-mention the Jewish angle.
I support Everton FC, you may support Liverpool FC. We accept both clubs are real - as long as they have supporters. Just let's not fight about it. My bible is my city-map. It says that if I keep cycling this way then so-and-so street will come up...and it does!
As for nit-picking differences between the Bible and the Qur'an, it is people who write these books and run these religions - people are different. That we know.
-----------------------
On the assumption that I am a Muslim poster because I seek balanced debate:
I'm a fence-sitting agnostic who responds best when confronted by mindless copycat statements like the one below:
Cassandra wrote:
"You don't have to follow a barbaric evil deity created by a psychopathic pedophile."
Try and approach the subject openly or you risk sounding like most Muslims do when one tries to explain that Muhammad caricatures do not warrant burning down of embassies.
I only think that to have one side say:
"Islam, Allah, Muhammad, Muslim all mean peace."
and another side say:
"Allah is a barbaric evil deity created by a psychopathic pedophile"
requires some middle-ground argument.
This forum is lacking more sober thinking into why a 1400 years old religion has endured and bloomed to a billion people. The atrocities of this world have been caused by all kinds of peoples for all kinds of ideologies...Islam simply can't be the most evil one of all.
I can understand some of your stance. Certainly ignorance and brainwashing has played its part on mass scales but one could say the same for Christendom, especially before the 19th century.
Perhaps Islam is morally and intellectually a century behind the secular world? Doesn't mean it's evil.
Turkey's EU situation is a very interesting one, and one that could be key to how Islam develops this next 100 years. How do you feel about Muslim countries run by secular government...as the West have for most of the last century? Most Arabic people do not want this but I feel they can adapt if such changes happen.
I feel that the danger is religion in government, not spirituality in people. Keep Islam in people but lose it from government. I don't think Turkey has "denied" Islam, it has perhaps adapted its influence on the state...which is a step in the right direction for the free world.
-----------------------
On why I champion the middle-ground:
The middle ground I am already living consists of going out with friends, (some of which are muslim) and playing football, drinking beer (some drinking alcohol-free beer), eating halal döner together, helping each other, talking with each other, talking theology - and sometimes is disagreeing but understanding why.
None of them have tried to behead me yet.
So you blind stupid Islam-bashers should stop copying opinion from other media and start realising that there is already a middle-ground, especially in the big European cities. And that you can mix Islamic faith with agnostic friends.
Yes, there are extremists who want Islam to take over the world and kill all who refuse. Yes, Muhammad has a probably unclean history. No, we should not wipe out Christianity just because the odd priest rapes children.
No, we should not wipe out Islam just because the odd nutter murders civilians.
-----------------------
Preaching to the stupid:
Wrong. Taking selective translations from the Koran to make this case is just lazy. What you need to understand is that if these people are happy with their relationship with Islam and Allah, then that is all that is important...there are no victims.
ixolite wrote:
"Btw, the "middle-ground" in european cities is for a woman the reality of being molested in the "islamic" areas of the city."
This is a general problem. In comparison with other major cities I think Berlin is quite safe for young single women to freely walk about at any hour. And we're not just talking safe from Muslims (from supposed "Islamic areas") but relatively safe from any other nasty rapist.
ixolite wrote:
"How anyone with a sane brain can support animal cruelty by eating this stuff (halal) is beyond me."
Animals are killed for us to eat. How this is done is generally determined by concepts of religion, perceived animal-fairness or economy. We either eat dead animals or we don't. A vegan telling me "Yuk!" I can empathise with but a fellow carnivore?
-----------------------
elseedy defends Islam against the bashers:
Who are you all to say who is a good muslim and a bad one? You all have no idea and pick and choose your 'sources' to best suit an opinion against Islam.
Yes, the Islamqa site preaches absolute rigid nonsense that has no place in the modern world. No, that is not a reason to wipe out Islam simply because not every Muslim (by far) adheres to such rigidness.
In London and Berlin such rules as stated on this Islamqa site are broken all the time. The Muslims who break these rules aren't performing some kind of mysterious trick to fool us westerners. They are rather adapting their religion to suit their lifestyles. Take female doctors as one example. If this makes them a "bad Muslim" in the eyes of stiff Sheikhs or through targeted bashing then it probably makes them a "good Muslim" in their own view, their family's and in their own interpretation of Islam.
For the record I am a white European agnostic who believes that any literal adherence to holy books and beliefs in divinity is childish at best...can be dangerous too. I am also a fair man who does not like to see gangs of bullies bashing something to death for little good reason other than fear or greed.
Some examples of real bullying throughout history, of which Islam is barely a perpetrator:
- The Crusades
- The almost-complete wiping out of Native Americas tribes
- Slavery (from all over the world)
- The Holocaust
- Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
- USA's constant 'strategic' bombing of Iraq in between the two Gulf/Iraq wars
- This website and its contributors raving madly against Islam and its 1 billion followers
There are many good articles and discussions on this site but when it comes to straight Islam-bashing it loses its seriousness and becomes a dumb free-for-all. Even some comments from Muslims themselves have generally been dumb ripostes which haven't helped the discussions to become serious debate.
So, in conclusion: Do not believe that a Muslim who integrates genuinely with non-Islam society is a "bad Muslim". Do not believe that a Muslim who wishes harm to all non-Muslims is a good Muslim and thus, Islam should be destroyed.
For if you do believe this, then you may start major conflicts that aren't even there in the first place. Conflicts which the author of Islamqa probably also wants.
There are always two sides to every debate. That is why there must be a middle-ground which fairly represents the subject.
From the elseedy: book of wisdom 19:247-249:
"Look not to ancient scriptures of instruction, for you must adapt in this life."
"Do not call the haters stupid, it is enough only for you to know this."
(I broke a rule...this is good)
"Simply ensure there are no victims as a result of your actions or ignorance...this is enough."
-----------------------
The Universe disproves a present God?
I believe so and have often asked believers of their opinion of why we are God's special people when the Universe is so massive etc.
With our present level of knowledge and technology we won't even be able to explore beyond our own galaxy before the universe supposedly implodes upon itself (tho' the speed of light will probably be cracked in the future).
There must have been some kind of design at some very distant beginning - has the design been left to randomly evolve with almost infinite variables? Does this mean that we, the human race, and our wonderful planet were not planned at all but rather happened as a result of a chain of random events? If so, then nobody apart from us knows we're here.
Believers have given strange answers to these sort of questions: "Space is difficult to negotiate because God wants us to stay in our planet. Trust in Him" is probably the most popular one.
I say the universe disproves a "present God" as I can't make sense of designing such an unfathomably massive creation and plonking a chosen people on such a minuscule dot, reassuring them to believe and worship and bla.
I believe the designer (be it a force, entity or chaos) comes from the before- and afterlife and is somehow related to our consciousness. This is why the human has the urge to seek spirituality, which built the man-made religions.
I would be interested to hear thoughts on this.
-----------------------
Where are all the solipsists?
I've known 3 of them myself...but maybe that's just a trick I created.
One of my friends has been a solipsist for 20 years...it took him almost half that time to finally accept it.
He tells me that he didn't begin to fully enjoy life until he started to "play the game". He since finds people much more wonderful and interesting.
I wonder if we all go through this moment of enlightenment but most of us at such an early age as not to remember it. Or perhaps some have a short and wicked flash of solipsism before dismissing it on grounds of its ridiculousness forever.
-----------------------
Some shorter observations:
We are all one...that means we come from the same thing in the Before and go back to it in the After. There won't be a Me, You or Them...it will just be Us...in one.
I don't know how I know, I just know.
--
"angstheist" - I know some of those too. It should have a Wiki entry.
--
Why is it that when I read your posts I hear the voice of Stewie Griffin reciting them?
--
The IRA (The Irish Republican Army) killed people and scared a whole kingdom for decades before being negotiated out of business so please stop your bloodthirsts and think about how to deal with this problem in an adult way.
--
WHHOOO-HOOOOO!!!
ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR THE CRAZY HATER, YEAH!!! LET'S KICK THEIR ASSES, GOD BLESS blah, blah, blah
Jesus weeps as he reads your post, Starburst...you sorry lost soul you.
--
What a load of rubbish...what on earth are you saying here? This whole debate has gone as silly as the original post.
Let's kill it.-
I signed up and used the "elseedy" moniker, which is the name of a music collective we had in London, but on this site sounds like an Arabic surname (it's not very common). I wanted to
humanise and balance some of the more vicious threads going on, with interesting effects. I also wanted to discuss general theology of a more final nature.
Below are various statements without surrounding thready context made by the seedy me from different threads during Autumn 2007 (the dholl seeds are a store, see):
-----------------------
On the inherent intention of conflict from every Muslim:
You may influence the thinking of a Muslim if he (or she) is naturally a compassionate and open person. For example I was discussing the murder of the dutch playwrite, Theo van Gogh, and my friend (arab, life-long and devoted Muslim to the point where he freely admits Islam comes first, family second) pointed to a picture of the poor man's prone and very dead body with a knife sticking out his chest and proclaimed:
"I respect the man who did this."
I believe this was an automatic response from him. After much passionate debate from both where we reminded each other that Islam means peace and such hysterical reactions are gross signs of weakness he eventually conceded and changed his mind to say that the murder of van Gogh was wrong.
Although still very much against any form of Islam-baiting my friend at least has shown me signs that there are ways to debate intelligently with Muslims. I think from the Muslim-end should come many concessions to:
Peace, Humanity, Love, Understanding, Forgiveness, Education, Maturity
when discussing and reacting to such difficult issues like the van Gogh incident or the Muhammad caricatures from Denmark.
Yet...yet who am I to know for sure he really did change his mind?
see wiki for the van Gogh story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_%28film_director%29
-----------------------
On Halal food:
Dönerläden and the like are everywhere, even in smaller German cities. The average person (like me) would rather eat out at local German eateries but does not have this choice as they are either closed for the day, have old and over-priced foods or are closed forever. Instead s/he eats at the Turkish or Arabic late-nighters and actually thinks the food is okay, good value and convenient.
Similar story with the food markets. I would like to support the German growers but their tomatoes are soggy and wrinkly, cucumbers are leaking water and the apples are bruised. The Turks however, are combining fresh goods with competitive pricing...
Capitalism at its mightiest! Oh, the irony!!
I'm thinking of doing some research actually. Where the produce from the Turkish and Arabic family stands comes from. Mayhap they come from local German farms anyway.
-----------------------
On fighting the Muslim threat by invoking the figure of 3000 dead from 9/11:
Okay, fine. So what about the unknown 5- or 6-figure death toll in Iraq since the USA-led invasion?
I think most victims (about 99%) were muslim. Hopefully that was not for nothing either.
-----------------------
On aggressive passages from the book of Islam, the Qur'an:
...what are you so afraid of? I live in Berlin where almost 10% of the population are Muslim. I lived in London for many years that had similar numbers. I would prefer it if the muslim communities wanted to integrate more but it's only been a couple of generations. I think time will heal most problems.
I only wish that there were more stable non-muslim family units with lots of babies as this invasion of Islam of which you speak may turn out to be sort of true, simply due to strength of their family units and having plenty children.
Additionally, one of the most important features of what I would call my culture (West-European) is the secularism of its state(s)...this, of course (contrary to what most Muslims would want) should remain.
I don't believe there is a cunning masterplan from Islam to invade Europe...the logistics alone are too complicated (a book, some mosques and an ideology is not enough).
You need to ask the question: why did the first-generationers move from their Islamic country of birth to a progressive and free(-ish) non-Islamic nation?
The answer is generally economical rather than anything sinister.
I have not personally experienced any fight from Muslims pertaining to those quotes from your last post. One could probably make a case that the London attacks from July 2005, orchestrated by British Muslims, were inspired by such translations but if there was a proper all-Muslim Jihad then there would be absolute anarchy.
I can only hazard that those quotes came from a time of war...it would be interesting to hear a Muslim's response to todays' validity of them:
- "Trust in God if the enemy wants peace"...meaning to agree with the peace. Or slay the enemy if the enemy wants war.
That sounds reasonable enough.
-----------------------
On making the Islam faith illegal in Western societies:
I think we should ban evil murdering nutcases...but I don't know how. I don't think banning the Qur'an will help much.
-----------------------
On criticism of my use of rough statistics:
...intending only a rough figure to make a point rather than using cold statistics to back up an argument.
-----------------------
On Islam and Christianity being the same, except run by different people:
Some boths include:
Both have a book which guides/regulates/governs them, detailing among others:
- the literal 6-day (with the 7th as a rest day) creation of our planet.
- Adam and Eve are the literal parents of everybody.
- the Noah's Ark and Abraham legends.
- Both have violently defended their faiths.
- Both have proven their inflexibility, ignorance and discrimination in countless historical examples.
- Both have claimed the attempt to instill basic humanity-based morals into which most good people live by.
- Both have wars to their name. Or rather both were used to cover up wars for land, power and control issues.
I can plainly see the logic in Intelligent Design Theory. I can just as clearly understand the Chaos Theory. The designer creates then leaves for Chaos to govern.
I cannot believe in an organised religion when there are dozens of Christian/Catholic off-shoots, when there are some Muslims who drink alcohol and others who do not, when there is also Hinduism, Buddhism, rabid atheism and god-knows what else. When there are questionable rules and contradictory morals.
They can't all be right. How can Islam be the correct one if it shares its history with its supposed rival? How can Christianity be correct when some reverends preach that Jesus is God himself and others say that that is fallacy, he was actually the son? Not-to-mention the Jewish angle.
I support Everton FC, you may support Liverpool FC. We accept both clubs are real - as long as they have supporters. Just let's not fight about it. My bible is my city-map. It says that if I keep cycling this way then so-and-so street will come up...and it does!
As for nit-picking differences between the Bible and the Qur'an, it is people who write these books and run these religions - people are different. That we know.
-----------------------
On the assumption that I am a Muslim poster because I seek balanced debate:
I'm a fence-sitting agnostic who responds best when confronted by mindless copycat statements like the one below:
Cassandra wrote:
"You don't have to follow a barbaric evil deity created by a psychopathic pedophile."
Try and approach the subject openly or you risk sounding like most Muslims do when one tries to explain that Muhammad caricatures do not warrant burning down of embassies.
I only think that to have one side say:
"Islam, Allah, Muhammad, Muslim all mean peace."
and another side say:
"Allah is a barbaric evil deity created by a psychopathic pedophile"
requires some middle-ground argument.
This forum is lacking more sober thinking into why a 1400 years old religion has endured and bloomed to a billion people. The atrocities of this world have been caused by all kinds of peoples for all kinds of ideologies...Islam simply can't be the most evil one of all.
I can understand some of your stance. Certainly ignorance and brainwashing has played its part on mass scales but one could say the same for Christendom, especially before the 19th century.
Perhaps Islam is morally and intellectually a century behind the secular world? Doesn't mean it's evil.
Turkey's EU situation is a very interesting one, and one that could be key to how Islam develops this next 100 years. How do you feel about Muslim countries run by secular government...as the West have for most of the last century? Most Arabic people do not want this but I feel they can adapt if such changes happen.
I feel that the danger is religion in government, not spirituality in people. Keep Islam in people but lose it from government. I don't think Turkey has "denied" Islam, it has perhaps adapted its influence on the state...which is a step in the right direction for the free world.
-----------------------
On why I champion the middle-ground:
The middle ground I am already living consists of going out with friends, (some of which are muslim) and playing football, drinking beer (some drinking alcohol-free beer), eating halal döner together, helping each other, talking with each other, talking theology - and sometimes is disagreeing but understanding why.
None of them have tried to behead me yet.
So you blind stupid Islam-bashers should stop copying opinion from other media and start realising that there is already a middle-ground, especially in the big European cities. And that you can mix Islamic faith with agnostic friends.
Yes, there are extremists who want Islam to take over the world and kill all who refuse. Yes, Muhammad has a probably unclean history. No, we should not wipe out Christianity just because the odd priest rapes children.
No, we should not wipe out Islam just because the odd nutter murders civilians.
-----------------------
Preaching to the stupid:
Wrong. Taking selective translations from the Koran to make this case is just lazy. What you need to understand is that if these people are happy with their relationship with Islam and Allah, then that is all that is important...there are no victims.
ixolite wrote:
"Btw, the "middle-ground" in european cities is for a woman the reality of being molested in the "islamic" areas of the city."
This is a general problem. In comparison with other major cities I think Berlin is quite safe for young single women to freely walk about at any hour. And we're not just talking safe from Muslims (from supposed "Islamic areas") but relatively safe from any other nasty rapist.
ixolite wrote:
"How anyone with a sane brain can support animal cruelty by eating this stuff (halal) is beyond me."
Animals are killed for us to eat. How this is done is generally determined by concepts of religion, perceived animal-fairness or economy. We either eat dead animals or we don't. A vegan telling me "Yuk!" I can empathise with but a fellow carnivore?
-----------------------
elseedy defends Islam against the bashers:
Who are you all to say who is a good muslim and a bad one? You all have no idea and pick and choose your 'sources' to best suit an opinion against Islam.
Yes, the Islamqa site preaches absolute rigid nonsense that has no place in the modern world. No, that is not a reason to wipe out Islam simply because not every Muslim (by far) adheres to such rigidness.
In London and Berlin such rules as stated on this Islamqa site are broken all the time. The Muslims who break these rules aren't performing some kind of mysterious trick to fool us westerners. They are rather adapting their religion to suit their lifestyles. Take female doctors as one example. If this makes them a "bad Muslim" in the eyes of stiff Sheikhs or through targeted bashing then it probably makes them a "good Muslim" in their own view, their family's and in their own interpretation of Islam.
For the record I am a white European agnostic who believes that any literal adherence to holy books and beliefs in divinity is childish at best...can be dangerous too. I am also a fair man who does not like to see gangs of bullies bashing something to death for little good reason other than fear or greed.
Some examples of real bullying throughout history, of which Islam is barely a perpetrator:
- The Crusades
- The almost-complete wiping out of Native Americas tribes
- Slavery (from all over the world)
- The Holocaust
- Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
- USA's constant 'strategic' bombing of Iraq in between the two Gulf/Iraq wars
- This website and its contributors raving madly against Islam and its 1 billion followers
There are many good articles and discussions on this site but when it comes to straight Islam-bashing it loses its seriousness and becomes a dumb free-for-all. Even some comments from Muslims themselves have generally been dumb ripostes which haven't helped the discussions to become serious debate.
So, in conclusion: Do not believe that a Muslim who integrates genuinely with non-Islam society is a "bad Muslim". Do not believe that a Muslim who wishes harm to all non-Muslims is a good Muslim and thus, Islam should be destroyed.
For if you do believe this, then you may start major conflicts that aren't even there in the first place. Conflicts which the author of Islamqa probably also wants.
There are always two sides to every debate. That is why there must be a middle-ground which fairly represents the subject.
From the elseedy: book of wisdom 19:247-249:
"Look not to ancient scriptures of instruction, for you must adapt in this life."
"Do not call the haters stupid, it is enough only for you to know this."
(I broke a rule...this is good)
"Simply ensure there are no victims as a result of your actions or ignorance...this is enough."
-----------------------
The Universe disproves a present God?
I believe so and have often asked believers of their opinion of why we are God's special people when the Universe is so massive etc.
With our present level of knowledge and technology we won't even be able to explore beyond our own galaxy before the universe supposedly implodes upon itself (tho' the speed of light will probably be cracked in the future).
There must have been some kind of design at some very distant beginning - has the design been left to randomly evolve with almost infinite variables? Does this mean that we, the human race, and our wonderful planet were not planned at all but rather happened as a result of a chain of random events? If so, then nobody apart from us knows we're here.
Believers have given strange answers to these sort of questions: "Space is difficult to negotiate because God wants us to stay in our planet. Trust in Him" is probably the most popular one.
I say the universe disproves a "present God" as I can't make sense of designing such an unfathomably massive creation and plonking a chosen people on such a minuscule dot, reassuring them to believe and worship and bla.
I believe the designer (be it a force, entity or chaos) comes from the before- and afterlife and is somehow related to our consciousness. This is why the human has the urge to seek spirituality, which built the man-made religions.
I would be interested to hear thoughts on this.
-----------------------
Where are all the solipsists?
I've known 3 of them myself...but maybe that's just a trick I created.
One of my friends has been a solipsist for 20 years...it took him almost half that time to finally accept it.
He tells me that he didn't begin to fully enjoy life until he started to "play the game". He since finds people much more wonderful and interesting.
I wonder if we all go through this moment of enlightenment but most of us at such an early age as not to remember it. Or perhaps some have a short and wicked flash of solipsism before dismissing it on grounds of its ridiculousness forever.
-----------------------
Some shorter observations:
We are all one...that means we come from the same thing in the Before and go back to it in the After. There won't be a Me, You or Them...it will just be Us...in one.
I don't know how I know, I just know.
--
"angstheist" - I know some of those too. It should have a Wiki entry.
--
Why is it that when I read your posts I hear the voice of Stewie Griffin reciting them?
--
The IRA (The Irish Republican Army) killed people and scared a whole kingdom for decades before being negotiated out of business so please stop your bloodthirsts and think about how to deal with this problem in an adult way.
--
WHHOOO-HOOOOO!!!
ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR THE CRAZY HATER, YEAH!!! LET'S KICK THEIR ASSES, GOD BLESS blah, blah, blah
Jesus weeps as he reads your post, Starburst...you sorry lost soul you.
--
What a load of rubbish...what on earth are you saying here? This whole debate has gone as silly as the original post.
Let's kill it.-
Wednesday, 22 October 2008
Monday, 20 October 2008
What type of man are you when...
...the woman you want doesn't want you, and is actually turned off by the idea:
- The Denier
You don't believe it. In fact, you are certain she is secretly in love with you. Her reaction is only show to protect you/her actual partner/the cat.
- Mr Downwards
You are so down. You are depressed, are haunted by a thousand ghosts of negativity. You are scum. You are useless shit. Nobody likes you...ever.
- The Hopeful One
You accept it, but you have hope. You think it might still work out one day. Maybe she'll come round to the idea, you just have to kind of stick around and not make any big balls up.
- The Liar
Everything you say is a lie, a fantasy. This is a tactical and very conscious act. The desired result is that you will look better in her eyes. The colder among you will even look to make her feel inferior through your lies.
- Man of Apathy
You actually don't care either way. You feel so dull inside, you're not even sure a yes from her would have made any difference. You are not down, or unhappy...you are emotionally blunted. You feel nothing.
- Nastyman
You are one of the bad guys. You react with rage, aggression, nasty intention. You want to just argue. You write awful things, attacking her. You might contemplate or even act out a physical attack. You exist, yes you do.
- The Rabid Nervous Communicator
You go all weird: talk in breathless gasps of hot air which are damp and sweaty. You call/text/mail constantly in an attempt to explain, or to appease...each time with a different viewpoint. Mostly you have no idea what you are talking about, but you think as long as there still is some form of constant communication, then things will work out.
- The Rationalist
You decide to stop fancying her as it's a waste of energy. You are a slave to reciprocal love, and are turned off by one-way attraction, whichever way it runs. Some people would call this a gift, but you call it a method.
- The Seducer
You are hot and you know it. You don't need a signal from the girl that she wants you, because you have the technique/eyes/bum to take her anyway. She won't even realise what's happened until long after your lips have locked with hers.
- Shyboy
You are either very silent on the subject, or you can only broach it with nervous laughter and red face. You can certainly not talk about it in any meaningful way.
- Mr That's Life:-)
You like to shrug off things with a smiley. You are a genuine positive floater of a man, like a cloud which is all fluffy and nice. You probably say things like: "Oh well, at least I've learnt something lol!".
- The Warm Friend
You accept it, and understand there is no hope. Yet you like her so much you become her best friend. You are the one she calls when she needs somebody to talk to. You spend more time with her than anyone else, you might even hold a candle for her throughout, but nothing will ever happen...yet you are content.
- The Wiper
Some kind of crazy outrage causes you to wipe out every memory of her. No more contact, no more thoughts, no more memories. She never existed...end of.
- The Denier
You don't believe it. In fact, you are certain she is secretly in love with you. Her reaction is only show to protect you/her actual partner/the cat.
- Mr Downwards
You are so down. You are depressed, are haunted by a thousand ghosts of negativity. You are scum. You are useless shit. Nobody likes you...ever.
- The Hopeful One
You accept it, but you have hope. You think it might still work out one day. Maybe she'll come round to the idea, you just have to kind of stick around and not make any big balls up.
- The Liar
Everything you say is a lie, a fantasy. This is a tactical and very conscious act. The desired result is that you will look better in her eyes. The colder among you will even look to make her feel inferior through your lies.
- Man of Apathy
You actually don't care either way. You feel so dull inside, you're not even sure a yes from her would have made any difference. You are not down, or unhappy...you are emotionally blunted. You feel nothing.
- Nastyman
You are one of the bad guys. You react with rage, aggression, nasty intention. You want to just argue. You write awful things, attacking her. You might contemplate or even act out a physical attack. You exist, yes you do.
- The Rabid Nervous Communicator
You go all weird: talk in breathless gasps of hot air which are damp and sweaty. You call/text/mail constantly in an attempt to explain, or to appease...each time with a different viewpoint. Mostly you have no idea what you are talking about, but you think as long as there still is some form of constant communication, then things will work out.
- The Rationalist
You decide to stop fancying her as it's a waste of energy. You are a slave to reciprocal love, and are turned off by one-way attraction, whichever way it runs. Some people would call this a gift, but you call it a method.
- The Seducer
You are hot and you know it. You don't need a signal from the girl that she wants you, because you have the technique/eyes/bum to take her anyway. She won't even realise what's happened until long after your lips have locked with hers.
- Shyboy
You are either very silent on the subject, or you can only broach it with nervous laughter and red face. You can certainly not talk about it in any meaningful way.
- Mr That's Life:-)
You like to shrug off things with a smiley. You are a genuine positive floater of a man, like a cloud which is all fluffy and nice. You probably say things like: "Oh well, at least I've learnt something lol!".
- The Warm Friend
You accept it, and understand there is no hope. Yet you like her so much you become her best friend. You are the one she calls when she needs somebody to talk to. You spend more time with her than anyone else, you might even hold a candle for her throughout, but nothing will ever happen...yet you are content.
- The Wiper
Some kind of crazy outrage causes you to wipe out every memory of her. No more contact, no more thoughts, no more memories. She never existed...end of.
Saturday, 4 October 2008
How to make tea
Category: Religion and Philosophy
1) Procure circa 250ml high-ball shaped tea mug (ceramic/porcelain are fine) and boil kettle (kettle has effective limescale filter and abt 300ml water is fresh from tap - the remaining 50ml is thrown).
2) Place one Yorkshire Tea Bag in mug.
3) Add a half teaspoon of muscovado.
4) Add just enough milk (fresh, non-homogenised with 3%-4% natural fat) to give the finished article that dark golden brown look (one simply knows how much to put in...and the risk of under/overweight simply adds to the excitement).
5) With your (long steel) teaspoon vigorously stir the muscovado in with the milk and the teabag flat face down at the base. After abt 20 seconds one will have a thick, sweet brown liquid and a very soggy teabag.
(One tends to time the above steps to perfection as the kettle is now boiling).
6) In classic cocktail style pour the boiling water at an easy pace whilst hoisting the kettle in slow motions up and down thither into the mug (say from 5cm to 20cm vertical distance from kettle spout to mug rim). The teabag will become bloated, like a balloon, and float to the top. Froth will form. This is good.
7) Now squeeze...gently yet firmly, like pressing a loved one. Eke out the tea's very essence through the pressure (front- or back-side of teaspoon is a matter of personal preference). A richly-seductive aroma shoots up into the air, a sound of squeezing and extraction so perfect as to make you take a deep breath each time, lovely visual effects of frothy bubbles and darkest streams of brown invading the creamy white appearance of the liquid...aaah, for we are almost there.
8) Using the the spoon take the bag abt 80% out of the mug and clasp the edge of the bag with the fingers. The bag should be abt 20% immersed.
9) Now stir the newly-formed tea liquid in a fast, rhythmic, anti-clockwise action for abt 10 seconds. During this stir the bag is to be hoisted in and out of the liquid (which resumes the hard hot splashing of liquid onto the bag...further releasing flavour).
10) Release the bag from grip and wonder at the beauty of the still hypnotically spinning tea now carrying the bag with it...like a doomed ocean liner in the Bermuda Triangle caught on fast-forward video. The bag must still sink however and will not do so as it has re-ballooned due to the afore-action. Squeeze it, baby, one more time.
11) Take a minute or two to contemplate what has just occurred and then please do consummate...
...that means drink it.
Thursday, 2 October 2008
Everton crash out...
I'm not gonna go into detail, that's what the evertonfc.com blueboard is for (well, for ranting mainly). But I will paste perceptive half-time blather from Guardian writer Tom Bryant, quoting a couple of Everton fans:
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Peep, peep: That's it for the first half. It may well be it for Everton as well.
A half-time email: "Re: Gary Naylor's tactical email. Fair point about that 4-1-3-1-1, except that the thing that made it work so well the past few years - a stout bald Irishman - is no longer available. Problems with Howard and the back four this season aside, not nearly enough attention is paid to how much we miss Lee Carsley," says Ryan Jones all the way from USA! USA! USA!
MBM regular and Everton fan Gary Naylor is beginning to get into that kind of angrily morose mood you tend to get into when your team is on the verge of sliding ignominiously out of the Cup. "Everton are a bit lucky to have nil at the moment," he says. "At the start of the season, at least we were scoring as well as conceding - the nightmare scenario of a fragile defence and a toothless attack looms. Moyes needs to earn his money in the next hour or so."
He's not the only one, either: "Man, first we panic buy a player who would have cost £5m before his clash with Liverpool (Fellaini: £15m)," writes Darren Holliday before winding himself up then really getting in the mood for a RANT. "Then we play a disgraceful home derby. This week the players openly ask Moyes what the deal is with his contract ... no answer to that one. Just now we are playing as badly as we have all season and look second best to a team from Belgium. And at this very second I'm listening to random French conversation darting out of my speakers as the BetFair internet broadcast quite strangely just leaves us hanging there among the crowd staring at an empty pitch ... oh, and now awful Europoop trance is blaring out of the stadium." He signs off saying he's off to make some tea but, really, I think he might be rigging up some kind of gun-drawing contraption, shaving his head, and repeating "Are you looking at me," into the mirror over and over again.
We're off again: Saha is still fit.
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dholliday comments...
I've just had a fairly active round of commenting on various Guardian articles (football mainly, but other stuffs as well). So to keep track I clicked on my profile, perhaps a discussion was being continued.
And as this bogroll is chiefly a store for my words I thought I'd just, as of this time, paste the first page of 'last comments made':
Quite funny really...if only in a 'My, don't I write a load of tripe' way.
But reading through these reveals an awful lot about myself. I wonder if the same can be said if I click on another poster's profile page and read through his/her last page of comments? If one proffers opinions on culture, sports and politics over the space of days or weeks then I reckon it must be natural that some shades of personality or even facts of character are revealed.
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Ashley regime shows fans the contempt they don't deserve
My comment Oct 02 08, 6:04am (2 minutes ago)
Ashley is untrustworthy.
His "King Kev" shirt had one of the most predictable bad endings I've seen in football.
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Bad times for Bavarian giants, on pitch and in parliament
My comment Oct 02 08, 5:59am (7 minutes ago)
I like Klinsmann, but wish his team much defeat.
The Bundesliga badly needs one of the Bremens, Schalkes, Hamburgs, Stuttgarts or Dortmunds (or Hoffenheims) to really kick on and maintain a consistent Bundesliga and eventual Champions League challenge these next few years.
My money is still on Werder but anyone will do...hopefully a few trophy-less seasons for the Münchners will make it easier for young stars of other clubs to stay put (what Schlaudraff, Poldi, Klose et al didn't do).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Should Ramos be held accountable for Tottenham's woes?
My comment Oct 02 08, 5:50am (16 minutes ago)
Minor cups aside...Spurs have always been an average make-up-the-numbers kind of club anyway. At least in my 20-odd years of following football.
Why all the attention? How on Earth do they attract these big names and all this interest?
Spurs are like a miniature version of Liverpool.
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Toon miss out on O'Leary the likeliest lad
My comment Oct 02 08, 5:45am (21 minutes ago)
All the analysis from you lot still doesn't change how far up the table Leeds Utd finished in consecutive seasons under O'Leary...wasn't it top 5 every season for 3 or 4 years in a row? One Champions League semi? All this amongst the disgusting acts of two of his top players and their very long and very public court cases?
Only the chairman is to blame for Leeds' downfall. O'Leary can be smarmy or annoying in interviews, and his Villa record is average, but the guy is a better candiate than Joe Kinnear.
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Jordan makes it crystal clear: life at the Palace has become impossible for a mere millionaire
My comment Oct 02 08, 5:38am (28 minutes ago)
Whoever decided that photo of Jordan should accompany this article...knew what they were doing.
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Why is Zizou so riled about a PSG winger's autobiography?
My comment Oct 02 08, 5:35am (31 minutes ago)
No big deal...Zidane was a hothead anyway, and was not fussed about being fair.
He will be remembered for his skills, not for the headbutt. Just as Maradona is known throughout the world for his amazing feats on the pitch, not the drug use...and outside of England no-one remembers the Hand Of God (got that in there before the clever dicks retort).
Zidane was immense, good luck to him whatever he does.
Recommended (1)
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No personality prizes in formula one
My comment Oct 02 08, 5:28am (38 minutes ago)
"relentless and robotic Michael Schumacher".
A massively successful German sportsman is denigrated in the usual manner by english kid-journalism.
All sports are like this now: their stars reign in their individuality for mass consumption. Look how bland football players are in post-match interview. The platitudes of golf or tennis champions are just as boring.
Michael Schumacher has little to do with it. If you forget your default German prejudice setting you will notice how the likes of great champions like Schumacher (and the Swiss Federer in tennis) in fact managed their own careers with impressive command and individuality...which comes across in interviews with them.
Emma, I venture because you are a woman, you struggle to grasp such technicalities and prefer an easy-to-digest personality like Rossi's...or Ronnie O'Sullivan. Both great champions for sure. This is not a sexist comment, it is the nature of female sports followers (as well as casual followers) to look for emotion in the protagonists while the male followers will appreciate the mundane operational aspects.
You may disagree with the above, but at least try not to use the lazy 'robotic/efficient/cold' descriptive terminology when referring to German sportsmen (or women). It's old, and you don't need it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The worst sports book ever?
My comment Oct 01 08, 11:12pm (about 7 hours ago)
The Ammies play military strategy. The world plays games.
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Same old blues
My comment Oct 01 08, 11:10pm (about 7 hours ago)
Unlike the American election...the Britisch election offers no appreciable difference of policy, character or moral to choose between the candidate parties.
Yawn...
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All eyes on Sarah Palin
My comment Oct 01 08, 11:07pm (about 7 hours ago)
@PresidentD...good answers.
@sarahpalin: I do actually believe you did not name a newspaper because you did not want to show favouritism.
@voters of the USA: Vote Democrat...it's the economy, silly.
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It's all about the Benjamins
My comment Oct 01 08, 10:57pm (about 7 hours ago)
TheEarlofSuave: I don't agree.
I hear so many people talk of New York and San Francisco selling their rough souls to Starbucks, McDonalds and other forms of gentrification.
What happens is that a conformist form of conservatism breeds like the clappers. Edgy and interesting art movements are priced out, spat out, frowned upon.
What you see as a crackhouse is probably a squat where people throw parties, make drugs and consume art.
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Ambitious Moyes must wonder if he will ever fulfil himself
My comment Oct 01 08, 10:48pm (about 7 hours ago)
You speak the truth, Diggin.
Cash is king and has been since Jack Walker and Sky showed the way in the early-to-mid-90's
We used to believe we are a big club: because of 1878, because of Dixie, because of our trophies, because of the 80's. King Cash has dethroned us, and King Cash can coronate us again. And unless there are major changes to the game, this will remain sad but true.
We concede Liverpool's successes in the boot room era had to do with enviable sound management and coaching, but their comparatively little success in the Premiership era has only cash and their global brand to thank.
Ferguson and Wenger are among the world's finest coaches. They did not spend obscene amounts when they started with their clubs, tho' spend they did...but I am willing to allow both their successes, fair play to them. But Man Utd also have a global brand more marketable than Liverpool's.
Chelski we know about.
The debate is a few years old now: how does non-big 4 club break it on a regular basis? How does the top division regain a sense of fairness and unpredictability? The answer 20 years ago would have been to improve the coaching and management of the club. Like Ipswich, Notts Forest, Aston Villa and Everton did.
The answer now is cash. The only answer now is cash.
The most vital question of which there is no answer is: if we solve it by having multi-billionaire foreign ownership for all or most of the 20 clubs...what will that mean for the future of the English game of top-level professional football and its fans?
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Go on holiday, they said. But the internet and my new phone gizmo mean I can never really leave
My comment Sep 29 08, 2:05am
I'll always remember The Happening as the cinema film that accompanied one of the most abject pulling failures of my life.
In mock tense mode during one of those badboy wind scenes, I grabbed her knee (she's got a fine knee) for about 3 seconds.
I say 3 seconds because that's how long it took me to realise she wasn't up for it...in fact she froze so violently that I thought I was turning to ice myself. Haven't heard from her since.
Recommended (4)
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I've let in 10 in two games so Owen should sell me
My comment Sep 28 08, 10:59pm
Well done. mate...you and your Pompey crew are a rare beacon of light in the ever-cynical monied world of Premiership football.
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The 10: sore losers
My comment Sep 28 08, 10:57pm
Mike Tyson
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Liveblogging the first Obama-McCain debate
My comment Sep 27 08, 4:43am
Did no-one spot McCain calling Mikheil Saakashvili the "great young president"?
Ouch!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The time has come for a final report on the 43rd president of the US
My comment Sep 25 08, 2:19am
Whitenights claims:
"Bush beat Kerry and Gore's university results"
Source?
Recommended (6)
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Arranged marriages are not a romantic ideal
My comment Sep 25 08, 2:15am
The truth of it is that arranged marriages aid greatly in the long-term survival of a civilisation.
Discuss.
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Science fiction doesn't have to be gloomy, does it?
My comment Sep 25 08, 1:36am
Stephen Baxter's Manifold Cycle (3 novels) is highly recommended and is neither optimistic nor pessimistic, utopic or dystopic...it is simply an exploration of fascinating possibility.
Or check out Yegeny Zamyatin's We (100 years old now)...a hectic and trippy read.
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The unfortunate case of the tube station and the Righteous Kill poster
My comment Sep 25 08, 12:33am
Nezza, that's exactly what I was thinking.
Pop culture whores, the lot of them.
Next
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I could have clicked on 'Next', but I think that's enough for now...that shit goes back 3 years anyroad.
And as this bogroll is chiefly a store for my words I thought I'd just, as of this time, paste the first page of 'last comments made':
Quite funny really...if only in a 'My, don't I write a load of tripe' way.
But reading through these reveals an awful lot about myself. I wonder if the same can be said if I click on another poster's profile page and read through his/her last page of comments? If one proffers opinions on culture, sports and politics over the space of days or weeks then I reckon it must be natural that some shades of personality or even facts of character are revealed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ashley regime shows fans the contempt they don't deserve
My comment Oct 02 08, 6:04am (2 minutes ago)
Ashley is untrustworthy.
His "King Kev" shirt had one of the most predictable bad endings I've seen in football.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad times for Bavarian giants, on pitch and in parliament
My comment Oct 02 08, 5:59am (7 minutes ago)
I like Klinsmann, but wish his team much defeat.
The Bundesliga badly needs one of the Bremens, Schalkes, Hamburgs, Stuttgarts or Dortmunds (or Hoffenheims) to really kick on and maintain a consistent Bundesliga and eventual Champions League challenge these next few years.
My money is still on Werder but anyone will do...hopefully a few trophy-less seasons for the Münchners will make it easier for young stars of other clubs to stay put (what Schlaudraff, Poldi, Klose et al didn't do).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Should Ramos be held accountable for Tottenham's woes?
My comment Oct 02 08, 5:50am (16 minutes ago)
Minor cups aside...Spurs have always been an average make-up-the-numbers kind of club anyway. At least in my 20-odd years of following football.
Why all the attention? How on Earth do they attract these big names and all this interest?
Spurs are like a miniature version of Liverpool.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toon miss out on O'Leary the likeliest lad
My comment Oct 02 08, 5:45am (21 minutes ago)
All the analysis from you lot still doesn't change how far up the table Leeds Utd finished in consecutive seasons under O'Leary...wasn't it top 5 every season for 3 or 4 years in a row? One Champions League semi? All this amongst the disgusting acts of two of his top players and their very long and very public court cases?
Only the chairman is to blame for Leeds' downfall. O'Leary can be smarmy or annoying in interviews, and his Villa record is average, but the guy is a better candiate than Joe Kinnear.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jordan makes it crystal clear: life at the Palace has become impossible for a mere millionaire
My comment Oct 02 08, 5:38am (28 minutes ago)
Whoever decided that photo of Jordan should accompany this article...knew what they were doing.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is Zizou so riled about a PSG winger's autobiography?
My comment Oct 02 08, 5:35am (31 minutes ago)
No big deal...Zidane was a hothead anyway, and was not fussed about being fair.
He will be remembered for his skills, not for the headbutt. Just as Maradona is known throughout the world for his amazing feats on the pitch, not the drug use...and outside of England no-one remembers the Hand Of God (got that in there before the clever dicks retort).
Zidane was immense, good luck to him whatever he does.
Recommended (1)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
No personality prizes in formula one
My comment Oct 02 08, 5:28am (38 minutes ago)
"relentless and robotic Michael Schumacher".
A massively successful German sportsman is denigrated in the usual manner by english kid-journalism.
All sports are like this now: their stars reign in their individuality for mass consumption. Look how bland football players are in post-match interview. The platitudes of golf or tennis champions are just as boring.
Michael Schumacher has little to do with it. If you forget your default German prejudice setting you will notice how the likes of great champions like Schumacher (and the Swiss Federer in tennis) in fact managed their own careers with impressive command and individuality...which comes across in interviews with them.
Emma, I venture because you are a woman, you struggle to grasp such technicalities and prefer an easy-to-digest personality like Rossi's...or Ronnie O'Sullivan. Both great champions for sure. This is not a sexist comment, it is the nature of female sports followers (as well as casual followers) to look for emotion in the protagonists while the male followers will appreciate the mundane operational aspects.
You may disagree with the above, but at least try not to use the lazy 'robotic/efficient/cold' descriptive terminology when referring to German sportsmen (or women). It's old, and you don't need it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The worst sports book ever?
My comment Oct 01 08, 11:12pm (about 7 hours ago)
The Ammies play military strategy. The world plays games.
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Same old blues
My comment Oct 01 08, 11:10pm (about 7 hours ago)
Unlike the American election...the Britisch election offers no appreciable difference of policy, character or moral to choose between the candidate parties.
Yawn...
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All eyes on Sarah Palin
My comment Oct 01 08, 11:07pm (about 7 hours ago)
@PresidentD...good answers.
@sarahpalin: I do actually believe you did not name a newspaper because you did not want to show favouritism.
@voters of the USA: Vote Democrat...it's the economy, silly.
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It's all about the Benjamins
My comment Oct 01 08, 10:57pm (about 7 hours ago)
TheEarlofSuave: I don't agree.
I hear so many people talk of New York and San Francisco selling their rough souls to Starbucks, McDonalds and other forms of gentrification.
What happens is that a conformist form of conservatism breeds like the clappers. Edgy and interesting art movements are priced out, spat out, frowned upon.
What you see as a crackhouse is probably a squat where people throw parties, make drugs and consume art.
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Ambitious Moyes must wonder if he will ever fulfil himself
My comment Oct 01 08, 10:48pm (about 7 hours ago)
You speak the truth, Diggin.
Cash is king and has been since Jack Walker and Sky showed the way in the early-to-mid-90's
We used to believe we are a big club: because of 1878, because of Dixie, because of our trophies, because of the 80's. King Cash has dethroned us, and King Cash can coronate us again. And unless there are major changes to the game, this will remain sad but true.
We concede Liverpool's successes in the boot room era had to do with enviable sound management and coaching, but their comparatively little success in the Premiership era has only cash and their global brand to thank.
Ferguson and Wenger are among the world's finest coaches. They did not spend obscene amounts when they started with their clubs, tho' spend they did...but I am willing to allow both their successes, fair play to them. But Man Utd also have a global brand more marketable than Liverpool's.
Chelski we know about.
The debate is a few years old now: how does non-big 4 club break it on a regular basis? How does the top division regain a sense of fairness and unpredictability? The answer 20 years ago would have been to improve the coaching and management of the club. Like Ipswich, Notts Forest, Aston Villa and Everton did.
The answer now is cash. The only answer now is cash.
The most vital question of which there is no answer is: if we solve it by having multi-billionaire foreign ownership for all or most of the 20 clubs...what will that mean for the future of the English game of top-level professional football and its fans?
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Go on holiday, they said. But the internet and my new phone gizmo mean I can never really leave
My comment Sep 29 08, 2:05am
I'll always remember The Happening as the cinema film that accompanied one of the most abject pulling failures of my life.
In mock tense mode during one of those badboy wind scenes, I grabbed her knee (she's got a fine knee) for about 3 seconds.
I say 3 seconds because that's how long it took me to realise she wasn't up for it...in fact she froze so violently that I thought I was turning to ice myself. Haven't heard from her since.
Recommended (4)
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I've let in 10 in two games so Owen should sell me
My comment Sep 28 08, 10:59pm
Well done. mate...you and your Pompey crew are a rare beacon of light in the ever-cynical monied world of Premiership football.
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The 10: sore losers
My comment Sep 28 08, 10:57pm
Mike Tyson
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Liveblogging the first Obama-McCain debate
My comment Sep 27 08, 4:43am
Did no-one spot McCain calling Mikheil Saakashvili the "great young president"?
Ouch!
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The time has come for a final report on the 43rd president of the US
My comment Sep 25 08, 2:19am
Whitenights claims:
"Bush beat Kerry and Gore's university results"
Source?
Recommended (6)
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Arranged marriages are not a romantic ideal
My comment Sep 25 08, 2:15am
The truth of it is that arranged marriages aid greatly in the long-term survival of a civilisation.
Discuss.
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Science fiction doesn't have to be gloomy, does it?
My comment Sep 25 08, 1:36am
Stephen Baxter's Manifold Cycle (3 novels) is highly recommended and is neither optimistic nor pessimistic, utopic or dystopic...it is simply an exploration of fascinating possibility.
Or check out Yegeny Zamyatin's We (100 years old now)...a hectic and trippy read.
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The unfortunate case of the tube station and the Righteous Kill poster
My comment Sep 25 08, 12:33am
Nezza, that's exactly what I was thinking.
Pop culture whores, the lot of them.
Next
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I could have clicked on 'Next', but I think that's enough for now...that shit goes back 3 years anyroad.
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